Talk:Jackson State killings

Gathering Shell Casings?

The wording could be more NPOV; the sentence, "They [the police] then took some time to gather their spent shell casing before withdrawing, leaving the scene in the hands of the National Guardsmen" seems to suggest cold-bloodedness. The key words are "took some time" -- the picture is of calmly collecting shell casings, presumably to hide the number of rounds fired. If that is what needs to be said, we should say it outright -- citing a court witness, or historian, etc. In fact, is the fact of gathering up the casings significant? Needs a citation for the statistic "460 rounds of ammunition" -- more than just "FBI estimate." LandruBek 08:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Of course the police were calm. They were white Mississippi cops who had just got to shoot them some African Americans(not that they'd use the "AA words" for them). They probably had a cookout to celebrate later. Let's not pretend these guys deserve objectivity.Ken Burch 00:27, 5 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.174.73.121 (talk)

Ken, it is the policy of Wikipedia that everyone receives NPOV and not just those an editor happens to like. You sound as biased in 2009 as you allege Mississippi law enforcement was in 1970. And from a country other than the U.S.TL36 (talk) 23:27, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Participation of the National Guard

The National Guard was on alert at Jackson State on May 14th but was not involved in the shooting. According to Robert M. O'Neil, et al, in No Heroes, No Villains the Guard was awaiting the withdrawal of the Mississippi Highway Patrol prior to entering the area. Since the MHP never left, the Guard never moved forward. This is unfortunate because the Guard, in Mississippi at least, was the agency better prepared to deal with crowd control.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.231.80.245 (talk) 06:37, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

While it was the Mississippi Highway Patrol that fired their shotguns, the Jackson city police was the major law enforcement group present so the point that the Mississippi National Guard was waiting for the Mississippi Highway Patrol to withdraw doesn't add up. I completely disagree that "the Guard, in Mississippi at least, was the agency better prepared to deal with crowd control." In 1970, the Jackson police had significant experience controlling difficult crowds -- unfortunately this was a riot -- and the Mississippi National Guard had zero. Their training at the time was limited to use as a military force and not a paramilitary one.TL36 (talk) 11:23, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

The Ubiquitous Sniper

Do you think mention should be made that the "sniper" alibi was also used by the Ohio National Guardsmen after the Kent State shootings, and is a fairly common excuse when armed officers engage in this kind of behavior? Remember that in the case of Kent State, the excuse was ultimately discredited. 140.247.248.204 18:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

If you travel that alley it seems reasonable to also emphasize more greatly the violence of the student body, which is also a common occurrence, and also generally overlooked in order to vilify those responding to their violence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.2.209.2 (talk) 23:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Fires

The article says the protesters "started fires," but that's a very ambiguous phrase. Did they build bonfires? Did they set fire to cars, buildings, or trees and shrubs? Obviously the weren't just holding candles because the fire department had to be called in, but this description of events could use some clarification. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 19:48, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

What were they protesting over?

Were they protesting the Vietnam/Cambodia war, or just protesting/rioting over a rumor. As the wiki currently stands it makes it clear that they were protesting over Vietnam/Cambodia, yet there are zero sources that have been cited that say that. Seems to have been a protest/riot over a rumor of the mayor's death. Someone is rewriting history on wikipedia. http://web.archive.org/web/20061201034204/...tate_University http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=126426361 http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2210...=21106404282431 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.0.16.245 (talk) 22:30, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Miler?

Definition of Miler by Merriam-Webster https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miler Define miler: a runner in a race that is a mile long — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.201.40 (talk) 08:35, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Requested move 17 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 09:46, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

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Jackson State killings (May 15, 1970) → Jackson State killings – This is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC with no secondary topic, no disambiguation is warranted. – Reidgreg (talk) 18:34, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

• Comment – Or, how about "1970 Jackson State killings"? It's often helpful to tell readers in the title when something occurred (the parenthetical is just kind of a non-standard way to do it). Paintspot Infez (talk) 21:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

  I cannot support leading with the year when it (a) isn't necessary to differentiate from another article, (b) isn't part of the common name for the event, and (c) makes an unnecessarily long and cumbersome article title. With notable events, the year quickly loses meaningful association with the event. It's the Kent State shootings, not the 1970 Kent State shootings, the Boston Tea Party not the 1773 Boston Tea Party, the September 11 attacks not the 2001 September 11 attacks, etc. Article names are chosen for recognizability, not to provide possibly helpful information to the reader. P.S.: the parenthetical is the standard way of disambigutating on the English Wikipedia. – Reidgreg (talk) 03:05, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. No need for the parenthetical qualifier "(May 15, 1970)" since Jackson State killings already redirects to Jackson State killings (May 15, 1970). Would also support, if there is consensus, the above suggestion by Paintspot Infez. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
• Comment: this could have been promptly reversed as simply a disputed WP:BRD page-move. But now that we're discussing and someone has proposed yet a third option, no harm in leaving the RM open a bit. However, I would propose to closing admin a default to undo bold move rather than requiring a positive consensus to the RM as posed. DMacks (talk) 04:30, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support per Wikipedia:Article titles policy, which notes that "Usually, titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that...balance brevity with sufficient information to identify the topic to a person familiar with the general subject area." (emphasis mine). Unless there were multiple shootings with the same location, that means the date is not necessary. And no part of the policy is for the title to help category-lists to be fully self-explanatory. DMacks (talk) 04:30, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

The former bold move is mentioned above.

 17:43, 17 April 2021‎ Sphynxdragon talk contribs block‎  98 bytes +98‎  Sphynxdragon moved page Jackson State killings to Jackson State killings (May 15, 1970): These incidents happen so often having the date in the title is helpful for research purposes when looking at all of the incidents. On Category pages like “Black people shot dead by law enforcement officers in the United States” or “Filmed killings by law enforcement” it’s impossible to tell when these incidents happened without clicking every article.

See also

 17:41, 17 April 2021‎ Sphynxdragon talk contribs block‎  106 bytes +106‎  Sphynxdragon moved page Danziger Bridge shootings to Danziger Bridge shootings (September 4, 2005): These incidents happen so often having the date in the title is useful for research purposes when looking at all of the incidents. On Category pages like “Black people shot dead by law enforcement officers in the United States” or “Filmed killings by law enforcement” it’s impossible to tell when these incidents happened to get a sense of prevalence with clicking every single article.

which is now itself the subject of an RM at Talk:Danziger Bridge shootings (September 4, 2005)#Requested move 17 April 2021.

These raise some interesting issues with respect to navigation, IMO. I preserve them here as they will likely be otherwise lost to general view. Andrewa (talk) 16:43, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.