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Worldview issue

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This article has worldview issues, as it's almost entirely US-centric.

Although the name "submarine" undoubtedly arose in the United States, many countries have long traditions of filling bread rolls with condiments.

Here in New Zealand, "filled rolls", as they are called, have been a staple since the 19th Century. Filled rolls have been a staple of Scottish cuisine even longer, not to mention the French with their baguettes. The Vietnamese also have a tradition of eating filled rolls, since their introduction by French colonialists.

I'm not saying that the article should be deleted, just that some more care should be taken in asserting that the concept originated in the US, and it would also be nice if some effort could be made to describe the origins of filled rolls in the rest of the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.43.206.23 (talk) 00:45, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I concur; I suppose the original 'long roll' to be the french baguette, which dates from the time of Napoleon (i.e. only a few years after the American Revolution). And I find it hard to believe that no napoleonic grognard ever thought of cutting his loaf in two lengthwise, and adding a filling. I ate baguette sandwiches in France the nineteen-sixties; they were not considered a US import. MrDemeanour (talk) 14:16, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So I considered trying to fix this; I can't. Most of the article consists of speculation about the origin of various nicknames for this sandwich, most of which already have their own article. But this article claims they're all names for the same thing. This US-centric worldview infests most articles on sandwiches; check out List of American sandwiches and learn that 'Roast beef sandwich' (roast beef with bread) is an american sandwich. I despair. MrDemeanour (talk) 14:47, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's beyond saving. It's not only sandwiches - most articles on American food culture are the same. Have a look at the talk page archives for canola and rutabaga. --Ef80 (talk) 12:18, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Submarine bread synonym

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The submarine bread is also known as Baguette. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.139.251 (talk) 18:48, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That is the nearest equivalent in Europe and the UK. The article is hopelessy US centric though, with the usual "all the world's America" tone that dominates WP articles on American culture and food. --Ef80 (talk) 12:11, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Quite, the short description is an American food item, but baguette sandwiches (called torpedoes in the UK until Subway became ubiquitous) have been around since the baguette.Halbared (talk) 23:13, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hoagies

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I added in the paragraph "Although many people consider Hoagie just a term used in Philadelphia . . . " with no source except from my experience. Spending six years in the Navy sent to different location s around the country I learned a normal Submarine sandwich has the bread split the cheese meats and vegetables piled on the bottom half of the sandwich and the other half placed on top of the sandwich. This was unlike the Hoagie I grew up with where the bread was split then the cheese meat and vegetables were stuffed in the split bread and the bread folded back together to make the sandwich. I eat it with the fold on the bottom and it is less messy to eat then the normal submarine. To me that (and the bread from the Philadelphia and Conshohocken bakeries) is a substantial difference and why I prefer a Hoagie to a Submarine.Benensky (talk) 18:19, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We can't accept that as article content, because personal recollections are WP:OR. DMacks (talk) 04:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Auto archive?

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This talk page has threads from almost five years ago.

I propose implementing auto-archive. Any objections? Mr. Swordfish (talk) 00:19, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seems sensible.Halbared (talk) 11:52, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I like old threads in Talk. I usually dislike archives. They only seem "practical" when there are hugely-long talk threads. And even then, it's a bit silly as we don't have dial-up modems that are so slow that it takes half a minute to load a page, and Wikipedia in general doesn't have graphics on talk pages, which means they load super-fast. If it's all on one page, it's easy to find. Archives are a nightmare for finding discussions. Misty MH (talk) 05:09, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Questionable Source. Removing Portland Maine claim.

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Someone seems to be on a crusade to claim the origin of all sandwiches on torpedo rolls filled with Italian cold cuts and cheese lies with a man in Portland, ME who started a currently operating chain of sandwich shops. The cited source describes many sandwiches that are closer to what people see as an "Italian" in most contexts (e.g. most national sub-chains) but seem to assign all sandwiches sold under the "Italian" moniker to the Maine Italian Sandwich. They don't make footnotes for their citations but they do seem to cite the website of the current sandwich chain. While that sandwich shop may be the source of the Maine Italian sandwich, I have not found any evidence of every other sandwich like it directly descending from it. The source claims it is "widely considered" (by whom? weasel words) to be the origin of the "Italian Sandwich" but fails to specifically cite sources for that claim, or make any direct connection to "submarine sandwiches" on a whole, which is the topic of this article. I successfully had the article Italian sandwich renamed to Maine Italian sandwich for the same reason.

In addition, the website is hardly noteworthy and doesn't seem particularly rigorous in testing their research. I propose finding alternate sources or removing the associated claims.

Andythechef (talk) 15:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That article should be deleted outright, it's purely ridiculous. "Maine Italian sandwich"?? What is special about subs from Maine that make them a "Maine Italian Sandwich"?
I deleted "Italian" sandwich as a name for the subject in this article. Ikjbagl (talk) 01:10, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The term Italian sandwich is well sourced in the body of the article, in particular section Submarine_sandwich#Italian. Since it is sourced in the body of the article we don't need a source in the lead. I've restored that name to the lead. In addition to being common in Maine, it is sometimes used as an "umbrella" term to collect all the various regional names (e.g. sub, hero, hogie, etc.).
As for the other article, Maine Italian sandwich, it doesn't seem to contain anything more than the brief section here, so it might be a good candidate for AfD. If you think it should be deleted, there is a process for that. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 14:01, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Submarine sandwich

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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Submarine sandwich's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Smith Kraig 2013":

  • From Spuccadella: Smith, A.; Kraig, B. (2013). The Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America. OUP USA. p. 351. ISBN 978-0-19-973496-2. Retrieved May 27, 2016.
  • From Maine Italian sandwich: Smith, A.; Kraig, B. (2013). The Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America (2d ed.). OUP USA. p. 351. ISBN 978-0-19-973496-2. Retrieved May 27, 2016.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 02:37, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Party sub - inaccurate reference to world's longest.

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The section on "Party subs" states that the world's longest was 735 metres. It cites a Guinness world record as a reference.

The article referenced describes a 735m sandwich made in Beirut, Lebanon. No reference in the article is made to "sub", "submarine," or "party sub". Pictures in the article make it clear that the product was pita bread based, which is corroborated in the following article: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/longest-sandwich-guinness-world-record.

The sandwich in question thus misalign to the article's definition of 'sub' on two points. It is not made from "a cylindrical bread roll split lengthwise". Nor is it American either in terms of literal geography, or in its cultural derivation.

I suggest this reference should be deleted. The mountain king (talk) 23:36, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. OTOH, if it's the world's longest sandwich (IDK), then it's fun as a bit of a side note, in any sandwich article. Misty MH (talk) 05:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The inaccurate material has been removed. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 15:47, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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