Talk:Imbangala

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Military history: African

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Anthropology: Oral tradition

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Land of Confusion

Hi, everybody. First I wanna say thnx to the folks who started this article and got it off the ground. I'm working on all things Kongo related (the kingdom not the modern states) and am trying to bring the same success to these pages as I was able to help bring about with the Mali Empire page. The Imbangala are an important part of Kongo's history and just a down right interesting topic. That being said, i've taken the liberty of starting some new pages and moving info around to clear the confusion surrounding this subject. If anyone's wondering why certain info might not be on this page anymore, it's probably cuz I moved it to one of the following...

Kasanje...the Imbangala state set up
Kasanze...the "Jaga" state east of Kongo composed of BaLunda warriors
Jaga (king)...the title for the king of Kasanje
Jaga (kingdom)...this link sends you to Kasanze
Jaga (people)...a page dedicated to the pheonomenon of the Jagas including info on both BaLunda and Imbangala.

I just started these pages yesterday so they need some cleaning up as far as references and categories. It's a big job, but i'm hoping I can count on the good people here to lend a hand. Thnx in advance and I look foward to working with all of you. CHEERS :)Scott Free 15:18, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New take on Imbangala

I removed the following text...

"In several occasions, the Imbangala were armed by the Portuguese, but did not receive pay and did not wear uniforms or distinctive badges. They were incapable of undertaking major military operations because of their lack of discipline. Their uncertain temper and violent tribal traditions occasionally made it necessary for the Portuguese troops to disarm them by force, but they were useful in the work of reconnaissance and assault against other tribes which were a constant threat to the Portuguese communities established in the region."

First i wanna say I did not do this as an insult. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE. I removed it cuz it is unsourced and contrary to almost everything on the page thus far. Can we re-include this content with sources. I study pre-colonial central africa and have never ran across any books saying..

The Portuguese armed Imbangala
They were incapable of taking major military actions for any reason (they were doing just fine b4 meeting the Portuguese)
They were undisciplined or unreliable warriors (the Imbangala didn't need the Portuguese to win a fight; it was the other way around. The Portuguese and the Tomistas were getting their collective a$$es handed to them until they incorporated Imbangala units)

It is true that Portugual did turn on the Imbangala when the latter stopped cooperating with them. but the Portuguese had no problem with their ally's tribal traditions when they were winning. Plus...there was no disarming the Imbangala (I haven't run across any literature saying they even used guns). You simply had to wipe them out.Scott Free (talk) 21:19, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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