Jump to content

Talk:Horse meat/Archive 1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1

Horse Meat Calories Table

This table is completely incorrect. How can a 100g piece of horse meat have 199 grams of fat?

rules people

If im not mistaken the talk page is not a place for discussing the topic of the article but how to improve the article itself?

Restructure required

I don't see a need for serious re-writing but I do believe that the section on opposition to consumption of horse meat should be last with preparation and traditions being the preceding section. The main drive of the article is about horse meat and the actual history and traditions surrounding it's consumption should be first. Many people have a problem with horse meat but this is secondary to an actual encylcopaedic description of it. If there are no objections I will do this ASAP. AntonioBu 15:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fine. // Liftarn

Fast cows

I am removing "In simple terms a horse can be considered to be a fast running cow." from the article. It adds nothing to the content and has little purpose. I'd love to see this entire article cleaned up a bit with a bit of cleaner history research but not expecting anything. --ORBIT 09:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

In terms of cultural perspective, why can't cows and horses be treated likewise? --ConradKilroy 16:10, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

It's an irrelavent point. Deer is as to Fast Running Cow. Buffalo is as to Big Cow. What does it matter? The comparison has little merit considering that cows are also a taboo food group to some people. To me the statement is childish and adds nothing to article.--ORBIT 22:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I made that reference and consider it quite relevant because a lot of people have an illogical aversion to horse meat while they are happpy to chew on a chunk of beef. If you think the article should be cleaned up, feel free to get stuck in rather than criticising something without considering why it was included. Garglebutt / (talk) 09:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


Actually the statement "In simple terms a horse can be considered to be a fast running cow." would be relevant since there is an aversion or taboo to horsemeat. -intranetusa

Well, not very well worded yes, and just counterproductive in shedding some light on the illogical nature of horse meat phobia. Honestly, I wish people would stop stigmatizing people for eating just another animal. I think it is unfair to prefer one animal over the other. If you don't want to eat horse don't. You don't know what you're missing though! 19:09, 18 February 2008 (UTC) Horse meat lover

Cleanup

It wasn't very helpful adding a cleanup tag to this page without any comments as to what is wrong with the article. I think it is in fairly good shape, particularly compared to many other articles. Garglebutt / (talk) 09:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Opposition

I reworked some recent additions that were obviously from a horse lover. Hopefully I have toned down the POV without diluting the key facts. It has allowed the introduction of sections on processing and opposition which can be expanded to provide more detail on legal status in applicable countries. Garglebutt / (talk) 23:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I commented out the section "Many Americans oppose horse slaughter due to the inhumane process used to kill the animal. The normal process is the use of a captive bolt pistol." as if it should be kept should be put in the captive bolt pistol article. Calling it "inhumane" is a POV unless it can be sourced. It is obviously a legal way to kill large animals for slaughter. // Liftarn
I've added a bit about captive bolt pistol under production (and removed an unnecesaary iteration). // Liftarn

Is horse meat legal to consume in the USA? I know its legal to produce, we ship to other countries. I want to try some, but cant seem to find any website that sells horse

I don't know about the US but it is not readily available commercially in Australia and you need to know people on the land who slaughter their own animals. Garglebutt / (talk) 01:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I know that it's illegal in California to slaughter horses for meat; don't know about selling or eating it there. I was just in Paris, where I saw "cheval" for sale in a supermarket refrigerated case, right next to boeuf, veau, dinde, etc., so I don't understand the statement about ordinary butchers not being allow to trade in it. I also understand that a word used for the meat is "chevaline" (perhaps a sort of euphemism, like "venison" for deer meat, etc.). BillFlis 22:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know for sure. But it is quite possible that the meat is butchered by a special butcher then distributed to supermarkets. Garglebutt / (talk) 22:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I know what you mean. Save me from the standardized corporate supermarkets that refuse to offend. At least I can still get beef and pork, but that gets boring. There are so many other things to try: horse, deer, seal and walrus, rabbit, nutria, guinea pig, buffalo, cape buffalo, water buffalo, emu, zebra, antelope, rhino, whale, dolphin, goat, manatee, platypus, frog (found it in an Asian market), turtle, kangaroo, duck, sea cucumber, giraffe, llama, capybara, moose, iguana, caribou, porcupine, anteater, sloth, beaver, hippo, wildebeest, elephant, peccary, camel... AlbertCahalan 23:35, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
One of the links at the bottom of the page says you can legally buy horse meat in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio and Virginia. Beltex and Dallas Crown only ship to foreign distributers. Your best bet is probably flying to Quebec. (to get horse meat that may have come from Texas) I've no idea how U.S. customs would react to a few frozen steaks. If you can take dry ice on a plane, do so. Let us know how it goes. AlbertCahalan 00:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
You could get smoked and salted (the type you have on sandwiches). In an unopened package they can be kept in room temperature for quite some time. Or dried (charqui). // Liftarn

Indian restaurants in the UK

Horse meat was widely served in Indian Restaurants in the UK, at least up until the 1970s. I ate it regularly and enjoyed it, not unlike venison. It generally appeared on menus as - to take one example - "Meat Vindaloo", as opposed to "Beef Vindaloo" or "Chicken Vindaloo". I understand that the horses were imported from Ireland as part of the horse meat trade that existed at the time, although I expect that has all now ended. --MichaelGG (talk) 01:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for this? or is this like the legend that Chinese restaurants serve cat meat? --Macrakis (talk) 02:14, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
No, this is from personal experience. I knew many Bangladeshis (who actually ran the "Indian" restaurants in those days) and it was common knowledge, not an urban legend like Chinese / catmeat which pops up from time to time. Personally I preferred horse meat as it had a flavour I preferred to beef. However as I said the Irish Horse Meat trade has probably ceased since those days (around "Beatles Era") --MichaelGG (talk) 13:06, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Interesting. But unless there is a source that meets Wikipedia standards, we can't include this. --Macrakis (talk) 14:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Have decided to include some pro-horse consumption links to make things a little more balanced and not just an "I love horseys!" thing.

Incidentally both of my grandfathers and several uncles are farmers and swear cows are more intelligent than horses. But I don't feel uncomfortable eating a steak, so why not chow down on dobbin? The people who complain will gladly eat battery farmed eggs produced under fantastically cruel conditions, and beef and pork and chicken etc etc. Say it with me everyone "Hypocrites!." AntonioBu 05:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Taboo

I've always, well since taking some anthropology courses in college, considered the word "taboo" to mean a moral or spiritual law that is almost never broken in society. I guess the Jewish and Islamic dietary laws could be considered taboos, but I don't think the general distaste of most Americans for eating horse meat quite raises to that level. I would work on the article but I'd really rather not. :-) Steve Dufour 01:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I would describe it as taboo, because if you went around in public saying you eat horse meat, people would get quite upset. You would probably get abused or even assalted. Anthropologists use strict definitions of words in their papers, but wikipedia is not an anthropological encyclopedia. It uses common definitions of common words, and 'taboo' works fine in that sense. (Justinboden86 07:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC))


I don't think it is fair to say it is a universal taboo in Australia. For example, there are many people with Italian, French, Korean backgrounds. Horse is sorely missed by many people living in Australia. Sure, the majority wouldn't eat horse but I don't believe the majority would support a ban, either.


I'm not sure that it is truly a taboo in Britain either. I am unconvinced people in general would get upset by knowing one ate horsemeat, although most women might. But it can't be said to be a taboo in the same way that dog meat is taboo, surely. The two are on different levels - perhaps that should be mentioned. Indeed, the article itself says that horsemeat has been out of fashion in the UK since the '30s - surely fashion is something different from taboo - and the article cites a poll showing more than 80% of respondents favouring its sale in a Gordon Ramsey restaurant - how then can it be considered taboo? 86.177.126.197 (talk) 18:23, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
The fact that it's virtually impossible to find horsemeat in a shop in the UK makes it an effective taboo. Retailers probably consider the market too small to be worth upsetting some fraction of their customers. I cannot quantify neither the "market" and the "fraction". But the retailers probably can... I have been eating horse with UK colleagues in Switzerland. They all realised it's something they wouldn't do in the UK, but they (almost) all tried. I think it goes beyond fashion. It was out of fashion in the 80es in Switzerland and then made popular again following marketing campaigns (focusing on the health aspect) and targeting restaurants. I think it would need more than just get restaurants have horsemeat on their menu to make it fashionable in the UK. Pkoppenb (talk) 23:12, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The bit about my "My Little Pony" to me smacks of unfounded, pointless speculation. What's with that?75.21.201.179 (talk) 02:29, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

belgium

There is not a single person in Belgium using nut oil to fry his chips in. This is incorrect, and the twat that reverted my changes should think twice before changing it back. First of all, in Belgium we use vegetable oil for home use to fry in. 99% of chip shops however use ox fat.

Nut oil (more accurately peanut oil or arachide oil) IS a vegetable oil and is quite popular for frying due to its resistance to high temperatures. Many chip shops also use vegetable oils these days. LHOON 16:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Some fact checking required

Having just returned from Switzerland (Lausanne area) where horse meat from both Canada and the United States is priced for brisk sales at just about every grocery store these days, the claim that the U.S. no longer produces horse meat appears to be inaccurate. I have no information as to where the meat originated (i.e. which state), but I see no reason why several grocery stores would make the same false claim as to the origin. Also, as a Quebecer, I can attest that horse meat is available here if you look hard enough; however, it is not exactly popular, everyday food. Most Anglophone (English-speaking) Quebecers won't touch the stuff with a 10-foot riding crop, and horse-meat butcher shops are rare (I know of one in the greater Montreal area). Horse on a menu still raises eyebrows and elicits more neighs (I mean "nays") than "yeas". Just my POV. Thanks for listening. Benderisgod 18:59, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

anonymous additions re UK

Welcome to Wikipedia. If you create an account, you can be more easily directed to various resources that will help you make constructive edits. This article is about food and is not the place for opposition. That topic has its own article at horse slaughter. Please keep on topic. BrainyBabe 00:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed an assertion re the etymology of the term "cavalier"

In the United Kingdom section, I've removed the assertion which read: "The mounted knights which would later become the cavalry were typically considered by the public to be the most chivalrous and noble of the armies units, hence the description 'cavalier'." My interpretion of this is that it means to imply that the content of the wikipedia disambiguation page for Cavalier supports the assertion regarding public perceptions of chivalrousness and nobleness of members of mounted cavalry, and regarding the assertion that this perception led to members of mounted cavalry being described as "cavalier". Looking at that disambiguation page, such support is not apparent to me. Also, this source appears to contradict the assertions I've removed, saying instead that the term "cavalier" comes from It. cavalliere "mounted soldier, knight," from L.L. caballarius "horseman," from L. caballus "horse, a pack horse.". -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Cavalier has several meanings. The meaning that was being refered to was "someone of Knightly or noble spirit", as you saliently identified above, the origin of the word itself is as a cavalryman - clearly being a cavalryman was associated with being 'knightly or noble' and so this meaning came about. So I don't think this is an assertion in the slightest sense. Equally I can't really see why this is such an issue, as its just qualifying why horses aren't generally approached as food in the UK, despite it being perfectly legal. Equally, Knights and by proxy horses were/are unquestionably associated with nobility, braveness, courage etc. in the UK, just take a look at Knights Chivalric Code which backs up that idea quite nicely in a single sentence. I think your going to have an uphill struggle if your trying to prove this sentence is wrong or an assertion, its perfectly relevant and completely correct. WikipedianProlific(Talk) 12:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

This is not a big deal to me one way or the other. I just noticed the assertion along the lines of: "The mounted knights [...] were typically considered by the public [...], hence the description 'cavalier.", which I read as asserting that the description came about because of that claimed public perception. I'm not an expert on etymology but, seeing that no supporting source had been cited and attempting to to verify this assertion by checking a source which does claim expertise, I saw that the source which I checked said otherwise -- that the english language term cavalier derives from the association of horsemen with horses (It. cavalliere "mounted soldier, knight," from L.L. caballarius "horseman," from L. caballus "horse, a pack horse), rather than from the association of mounted nights with chivalrous behavior. If you know of a source which trumps the one which I've mentioned, and if you feel this information is appropriate for inclusion in an article titled "Horse meat", by all means add the assertion back in and cite the supporting source. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 22:37, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

History

I just noticed, although belatedly, that an addition I made in September 2006 was removed regarding the consumption of horse meat at the Harvard Faculty Club. I cannot tell when or why it was changed, since there have been hundreds of revisions hence. My addition was properly sourced, so I imagine it was removed out of whimsy. If there is no credible opposition to the passage, I will restore my addition. Hildenja (talk) 12:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It's still in the article, I think, but it's been moved to the United States section. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The sweden entry.

I think there's a few factual mistakes here. As far as i know Gustafskorv ( yeah it's spelled with an f not an v, i know because i went to my refrigerator to check ) is pretty much a local Dalarna thing isn't it? At least it's produced in the village of Gustafs about 15km outside of Borlänge and i can't really say that i've ever seen it in a supermarket outside of the area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.31.181.58 (talk) 11:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant to entry?

"Also, note that the words pork, bacon, mutton, veal, and beef all derive from an old version of French, because of the class structure of England after the Norman Conquest in 1066 CE: the poor (Saxons) tended the animals, while the rich (French-speaking Normans) ate the meat." Interesting, But utterly irrelevant. Someone venting trivia perhaps —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nully (talk • contribs) 22:11, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Poor converters of grass and grain to flesh?

The article claims "As horses are relatively poor converters of grass and grain to flesh compared to cattle". There's a similar statement related to the anthropologist Marvin Harris. Is there any evidence for this? It sounds reasonable as horses aren't ruminants but I couldn't find any numbers. I added a "reference needed mark". Pkoppenb (talk) 14:50, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

At my time of reading the horse meat article, July 2010, the wording doesn't use the term "flesh", but "meat"is used throughout the article. When I was a teen, I was startled to realise that I had been eating so much bovine 'muscle' all those years. The word "meat" meant "food" merely a few hundred years ago. Check the Authorised Version (1611) of the Bible: Genesis... where Adam is told that vegetation will be "meat" = food, for him. There are numerous other literary examples from that era, where meat is what you eat, and meat is merely a synonym for food, and in no way does it refer to animal muscle, specifically. So, this wikipedia article could very well be more accurate and use the term 'muscle' in this context. I am not going to change the wording at this time, but if someone else is interested in cleaning up this usage wants to do so, I think it would be an improvement.

68.71.8.186 (talk) 09:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Heading text

I was also confused by this statement - if horses are such inefficient users of the land, why does the article say that their meat was regarded as food for the poor because it is so cheap? Wnt (talk) 18:26, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm.... [1] says "In the middle of the XIXth century, physicians militated for horse meat consumption : 'a cheap meat for poor classes' ", [2] says, "Gradually eating horse became less of a pagan practice and more of something only practiced by the poor who couldn't afford eating other meat.", [3] speaks of horse meat as being intended for the poor, [4] speaks of horse meat being used in pet food, and poor people eating pet food, OTOH, [5] speaks of horse meat as a luxury food. [6] says, "Unfortunately, after the war, horse meat became the food of the poor." Judging by prices at the Vasárcsárnok, it’s not so cheap anymore, and it’s not even clear who actually shells out for the stuff." That's a bit of a random sampling but FWICS, the article oversimplifies on this point. Off the top of my head, my guess is that the cost of animal husbandry for traditional meat animals is a cost counted ain the marketing of the meat; the horse, though, is a work animal, only becoming a meat animal at the end of its working life with no animal husbandry costs having been accrued. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:43, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Amazing how some people can make the simple complex. It was cheap because most people didn't want it, because people are superstitious. And obtuse. Capitalism: Cost has naught to do with price. 71.164.206.36 (talk) 18:24, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, there's "cost pricing" (costs plus margin) and "value pricing" (set the price according to the value the market puts on the item -- also known as "charge whatever the market will bear"). You're describing "value pricing" (that's my understanding, anyhow; I'm mostly a techie -- a layman in areas of commerce). Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that -- see the Pricing article.
The initial question involved an assertion in the "Reasons for the taboo" section that horse meat was considered taboo in some parts of the world because it was stigmatized as "cheap food for the poor". The questioner apparently didn't pick up on the "some parts of the world" qualifier. My initial response pointed up that horse meat prices varied in different market environments due to differences in pricing policies from market to market. Focusing in on how this discussion applies to improving the article, I don't think any changes are indicated. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 21:48, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

"In Sweden horse meat outsells lamb and mutton combined."

This was the case 1950-1970. Since the 50's the consumption of horse meat has been going steadily down whileas the consumption of lamb/mutton has gone up. http://www.sjv.se/webdav/files/SJV/Amnesomraden/Statistik,%20fakta/Livsmedel/2005:4/20054_1.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.227.122.30 (talk) 21:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Nutritional Value

I acknowledge this article is not going to be beyond controversy any time soon, but this is a bit ludicrous:

"Horse meat contains 25% less fat, nearly 20% less sodium, double the iron and less cholesterol than high quality beef cuts, and when compared to ground beef 25% less fat, 30% less cholesterol and 27% less sodium."

I guess maybe it's worth mentioning that whichever food-item label those percentages were copied from doesn't refer to how much sodium is in the actual horse meat before it's, you know, salted. Notice, for comparison, that it doesn't mention horse meat's molybdenum, manganese or cobalt content.Trueno Peinado (talk) 02:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I replaced the info in this section with a table giving sourced info. I just mentioned the nutrients which were mentioned previously; there's a lot more info available at that source. Feel free to improve. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:02, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


Selected nutrients per 100g!!! This has to be corrected. Total protein and fat amounts to more than 100 grams! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.96.34 (talk) 14:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

complete rubbish. this cannot stay in. the math is so bad that the whole thing has to be rewritten. 100g of something cannot be made from 91grams protein and 40grams fat.--Extrabatteries (talk) 16:26, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I've reverted the removal. The removed material looked familiar and, checking back, I see that it was inserted my me in this June 20, 2009 edit, with an edit summary of "Satisfy {{fact}}". Please read WP:V and WP:RS. I don't know much about the source I cited, but see this. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:13, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

You can cite all you want, but the information entered is blatantly wrong. I've checked the source and that is not the information they provide. Feel free to go through correct it, but as it stands its completely wrong. First, you posted a mix of nutritional facts from 100grams AND 1kg. You entered the caloric fat breakdown as a weight per 100grams: the listing clearly posted 4.6g of fat per 100gram serving. And 80b/20% fat beef, you cannot seriously post that it has 20% fat and then immediately post that it has 180% fat on the same line. I removed it because it was transcribed completely wrong, feel free to fix it, but it should stay there while you do. --Extrabatteries (talk) 15:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)--Extrabatteries (talk) 15:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

There, I have fixed two of them, if you want the rest you should go back through it and cite them correctly.--Extrabatteries (talk) 15:20, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

This article

It's very well done and informative. 65.9.221.109 (talk) 21:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

NPOV issues, Culture bias.

A few bits of the first part had to be revised due to their evident lack of NPOV. 

"and concerns about the cruelty of the horse slaughter process, ..."

The word "cruelty" here expresses a precise ethical judgement, which is unjustified since it implies an objective, inherent inhumanity of this activity. Humans have been crudely slaughtering horses for most of their existence. In light of this fact, slaughter by much more modern, quicker means can hardly be considered inherently cruel. In any case, the word "ethics", which is more neutral, will leave the reader free to judge for themselves. 

"it is a taboo in many cultures.".

A bit of general knowledge and a reading of the '#horse meat in various countries' section suggest that it is a taboo only in the minority of cultures. Distasteful though it may be, most of the world cultures are openly hippophagous indeed. "Some", rather than "many" is thus a more appropriate quantifier. 

"The horse is now given pet status by many in the western world."

The aversion for horse meat and their being generally considered pets, are phenomena which are present predominantly across the English Speaking world. General consensus is that UK and USA are not "most of the western world". Furthermore, survey of all the wikipedia in other languages will show that, amazingly enough, they are not as concerned about this culture-related taboo as the English version. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.126.35 (talk) 22:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree, horse meat is very common in the "western world", and is far less a taboo as e.g. beef, although that wikipage is the complete opposite of this one.MrEvers (talk) 08:59, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Mongolian horse meat.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Mongolian horse meat.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011
What should I do?

Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
  • If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 12:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The section on the legal status of horse meat in the US is not complete. First it says that the status is decided on the state and/or local level. Then it gives some examples of state laws. Then it seems to indicate that there was a national ban that was lifted in 2011. I don't have the information to fix the section, but someone who knows this topic should please correct this...

Section: Canada (Who writes this stuff???)

The entire section, save for a direct quote from a periodical, is editorial hogwash. I don't have the motivation to rewrite it, but that's what is needed. The part about horse slaughter being especially taboo in Alberta is utter rubbish, considering they export more horse meat than any other province (http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/pages/story.aspx?id=6442684316).

A mention of B.C. MP Alex Atamanenko (NDP - B.C. Southern Interior) is probably in order; he's been introducing petitions for years in the House of Commons calling on government to prohibit "the importation and exportation of horses for slaughter for human consumption, as well as horsemeat products for human consumption". (alexndp.ca/files/wp-content/uploads/.../C-322-Petition-EN-2012.pdf). Atamanenko also introduced a private member's bill to that effect, C-322; it died on the order paper.

See? I even started researching for you! Now type, type like the wind! HuntClubJoe (talk) 18:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

2013 meat adulteration scandal

In fact lookng at the article alink now exists

This subject may need coverage if only by linking to the other article. I am not too sure on you policy,for instance where cross linking is considered appropriate.It seems however worthwhle to at least somewhere ink the 2013 adulteration article and I will add such a link. JohnH99 (talk) 21:48, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Western world

It is noted at the top of the article that "The horse is now given pet status by many in some parts of the Western world". This seems almost entirely inconsistent with the rest of the article, where it's mentioned, for the majority of countries part of the "Western word" (as defined in the wiki article for that keyword), how horse meat is sold, eaten and even a popular dish.--DustWolf (talk) 06:57, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

The relevant part of the lead currently reads, "The horse is now given pet status by many in some parts of the Western world, particularly in the United States, United Kingdom and Ireland, which further solidifies the taboo on eating its meat." -- asserting (without support) that many persons in Western countries think of horses as pets. The term pet status is wikilinked to the Domestication of the horse article (I think that a wikilink to companion animal, which currently redirects to pet, would be more appropriate). The 2008 edit which seems to have initially introduced this [7] also asserted (without support), "The avoidance of eating horse meat (or indeed a taste for it), is relatively modern, with a complex historical and cultural origins." Looking at WP:LEADCITE, it seems to me that these assertions should either be supported or, if appearing in the lead without support, should summarize supported material appearing later in the article. Assertions along these lines seem appropriate for the lead, but should be supported there or should be clarified and supported in the article body. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:20, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Meat taboo in Spain

I must say that in Spain, horse if certainly is not a popular meat isn´t a taboo either. Is widely found everywhere, not only on the north of the country but also on inland and south. For example in Valencia(mediterranean coast) you can find in many butcheries horse meat, even there are butcheries specialised on this animal. Also in some restaurants is not uncommon to find horse steak or horse hamburguer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.43.238.112 (talk) 22:01, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Cyberbot II has detected links on Horse meat which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

  • http://www.sgs.com/en/Our-Company/News-and-Media-Center/News-and-Press-Releases/2013/02/EU-Wide-Meat-Testing-Proposed-For-Horse-DNA.aspx
    Triggered by \bsgs\.com\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 15:15, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Horse meat. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 external links on Horse meat. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 14:13, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Japan section

It is sourced and should stay. Thoughts? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:29, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, unless someone casts doubt on the validity of the sources. Asia is a major export market for US horsemeat (via Canada and Mexico). Montanabw(talk) 05:08, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

I basically am Japanese so I know better213.204.113.100 (talk) 06:09, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

I am Canadian. I declare that 99% of Quebecers prefer Habitant pea soup and buy no other. It's not in the articles Canadian cuisine and Pea soup. Do you take my word for it, or would you only trust sources instead? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:20, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
We may want to improve the referencing. Here are some. Montanabw(talk) 08:19, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the good links, Montanabw. Well, GodOfWater, it does appear that horse meat is still eaten, perhaps just not where you live. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:45, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

But it's not that common everywhere! And it no longer part of their authentic cuisine GodOfWater (talk) 06:54, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

You may be right, GodOfWater, but we must say what the sources say. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:25, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Finland section(removed, but wished)

If someone wishes to write Finland-section, go ahead. Its shame that English section of Hippos(The Finnish trotting and breeding association, http://www.hippos.fi/hippos/muut/in_english) hasn't translated horse meat recipe leaflet in English or listed statistics of horses slaughtered yearly. (leaflet was published to urge more people to use horse meat akin beef.) 88.114.89.144 (talk) 14:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Finland content

I question the reliability of these sources. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:39, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

WP:Non-English content is harder to trust. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:42, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

While there is plenty on the topic that is written in English, if we can verify it by running it through Google translate, I usually AGF. But more to the point, the whole article is kind of a mess and I have little incentive to work on it... so carry on... ;-) Montanabw(talk) 22:44, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
LOL. I try to assume good faith too, but, like WP:Non-English notes, Wikipedia prefers sources that are in English. I've seen editors take advantage of others' not being able to read non-English material. And I'd rather be on the safe side. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 09:37, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
English is prefered of course, but in fairness to hippos.fi, they´re probably a decent source of their kind: [8]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:43, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I find it useful to do what we did at Finnhorse and provide translations to the source. Montanabw(talk) 02:48, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Horse meat. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:22, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Post-Battle Horse Meat?

I think there would be more information about consumption of horses after pre-mechanization battles, either by troops or by battlefield scavengers. A crap-ton of horses surely died on the field, and those that were even lightly injured were almost certainly just euthanized. I'm guessing they wouldn't have let all that animal protein (and skin, bones, etc) just go to waste. Are there any sources that detail how it happened, or else why it did not happen? --DsouzaSohan (talk) 17:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Sweden

"The culturally close people of Sweden still have an ambivalent attitude to horse meat, said to stem from this[clarification needed] edict."

Very dubious speculation/claim, needs source. Bardum (talk) 23:33, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

That assertion appeared in this 2007 edit. No supporting source was cited, and the assertion appears to be the impression of the person who authored it. I wouldn't have put it this way, but I see [9], which is cited in the article, and some quick googling turned up [10],[11], [12], [13],[14]; I suspect there are other relevant sources out there. It looks to me as if this ought to be rewritten with a supporting cite. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:10, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Ireland

Ireland is not mentioned in the article despite the country being a major producer of horsemeat. The BBC reported on 15 March that the the number of horses produced for the racing indusrty had increased 40 percent in the boom years 2000 to 2007. However, the economic crisis has forced major cutbacks in racing stables and the number of abbatoirs in the country had increased from one to five since 2008. Most horse meat is exported to the Continent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldasiahand (talk • contribs) 21:00, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I found a source for horse meat production in Ireland from 2012-2018 and put it in the Horse slaughter article. Normal Op (talk) 20:55, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion to improvement etc.

From reverted entry of mine:

  • 'Because this they are not usually[vague]bred or raised specifically for their meat': (eh, fixed this with EU doc.)

Meat breeds exist.(minor industry.)

  • 'Almost all equine medications and treatments are labeled as being not intended for human consumption.[1][2][3][4]In the European Union, horses intended for slaughter cannot be treated with many medications commonly used for U.S. horses.[citation needed] For horses going to slaughter, no period of withdrawal, the time between administration of the drug and the time they are butchered, is required.[citation needed]'

Included sources. (I really want know citation for that claim in last sentence, as country-level, they exist.)

  • 'In EU, however, the same preparation is not considered to have any such effect, and edibility of the horse meat is not affected.[5]'

EU policy of MRL

One horse has been used to create kneejerk-effect against Japanese practical use of horses. PETA is especially shameless with this.

Sources

  1. ^ Official Journal of the European UnionCOMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 37/2010 of22 December 2009
  2. ^ List of products Medication/treatment withdrawal times used in harness racehorses regarding race starts, temporary or permanent slaughter bans.(in Finnish)
  3. ^ Drug treatment and slaughter(overall info)(in French)
  4. ^ Why horse passport is needed in slaughter(in Swedish)
  5. ^ Official Journal of the European UnionCOMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 37/2010 of22 December 2009]
  6. ^ "Death of a Derby Winner". Horsesdaily.com. Retrieved 2013-02-15.
    • I favor adding sources where there are none. But I have said many times, please cite things properly (at least, learn to use the space bar) That said, we don't need a citation in the middle of the sentence where the material is cited at the end. We also don't need to tag every claim. The Ferdinand situation, however, was extremely notable and triggered a major movement in the United States to repatriate aged famous racehorses from Japan. What is deemed practical in one nation may be deemed immoral in another (some cultures eat dogs and cats, others think it is near-cannibalism), and it is important to stay NPOV on these matters, neither whitewashing them nor creating a list of horribles. The article needs improvement, but we need to improve it, not just replace content that is iffy in one direction with content that is equally iffy in the other. Montanabw(talk)

eh, oops

  • And what comes to my citations..
  • 'When the Nordic countries were Christianized, eating horse meat was regarded as a sign of paganism and prohibited. A reluctance to eat horse meat is still common in these countries even today.'

I live in 'Nordic country'. I haven't never herd about this, but for most people the reclutance is same as in anglophones and the possibility of withdrawal time not being expired so peole aren't sure what they are really eating.

'and EU law[1]) ' yes, Britain is not only with law. EU is not lawless.

This horse should be, IMHO, reduced to sad footnote in horse racing's history instead being brought up again and again to serve PETA's purpose in kneejerk-reactions and possible anti-Japanese sentiments/cultural bias only because cultural differences. (Problem is that PETA doesn't give up on this issue.)
  • 'A misconception exists that horses are commonly slaughtered for pet food, however. In many countries, like the United States, horse meat was outlawed in pet food in the 1970s. [citation needed]'
I really want know source for this.
  • 'American horse meat is considered a delicacy in Europe and Japan, and its cost is in line with veal,[3]'
Why revert my edit with more dated source. Statistics of French horse industry don't apply to Japan.
  • For horses going to slaughter, no period of withdrawal, the time between administration of the drug and the time they are butchered, is required.{citation needed|date=September 2016}}
Sorry, at least Finland has these rules regarding 6 months slaughter ban/total slaughter ban.(Yes, some of us eat horse meat.)
Bad wording?
Please don't go into slippery slope of 'cats and dogs'-card. NPOV is NPOV, but there is no need to do that.※〶 21:26, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

※〶 21:26, 19 September 2016 (UTC)


Sources

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference residueimport was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ "Death of a Derby Winner". Horsesdaily.com. Retrieved 2013-02-15.
  3. ^ "Horsemeat in France - (June 2006), Librairie des Haras nationaux" (PDF). Retrieved 2013-02-15.

Nota bene* A number of these issues are still present in the article. Normal Op (talk) 21:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Article heavily worked; citations still needed. Archived 36 talk threads, 4 left open.

I just gave a "good going over" to the article. Rearranged the sections, fixed some citations, moved the hatnotes/tags/flags down to the countries section, etc. I have read all the threads on this Talk page, checked them for completion, and archived all the old ones. There are four threads left from the original 40 threads. The predominant problem remaining in the article is the long string of cultural/country sections without any citations. I'd hate to lose them because they are informational, but I'm jaded after the work I did and would appreciate some help finding citations for these countries and their culinary cultures of eating horse meat. Normal Op (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:09, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

South America

This is a WP:BRD discussion.

  • @Deourmju: made this WP:BOLD edit to the intro to the Around the world section, removing mention of South America.
  • I reverted that here. saying Argentina and Chile are covered in the article body.
  • I did that based on no research beyond a glance at the article.
  • That was unrevrted here, saying The article clearly says they export it, but don’t eat it, not part of their traditions.
  • That is the current state of the article regarding this.

I have two points to make re this:

1. The Around the world section of the Horse meat article probably ought to include information about production for export as well as information about consumption.

2. I did some online research and found this July 5, 2010 article titled Eating Chilean Horse Meat that has a section titled Horse meat in Chile today and some apparently relevant photos. I don't want to get into a discussion about the reliability of the author or publisher of that article, but I note that is apparently part of a series titled Eating Chilean which is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. My quick online research did not turn up similar information re Argentina. There may or may not be other sources out there re horse meat in South American countries.

I don't have a strong POV on this; I just happened to see the edit which began this in passing. I just mention it here for possible discussion by regular editors of this article. I don't anticipate commenting further myself, though I might. Cheers, Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 09:53, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Some proportion of people eats something almost everywhere, for instance you could find insect consumption in Europe. However, you need more than a small proportion to say that it is "culinary tradition". I do not think we have sources establish horse meat as a culinary tradition (as opposed to manufacture) in South America.--Mvqr (talk) 10:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

IHDH

What is IHDH? It is nowhere explained in the text

Aethalides (talk) 13:06, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Horse_meat/Archive_1&oldid=1240110880"