Talk:Enlargement of the European Space Agency

This page needs update

This page needs to be updated. It doesn't follow the recent changes having been made in the main ESA page. There are countries that have signed cooperation agreements, ECS agreements, PECS charter, are about to become full ESA members or have announced their intention to participate in the activities of ESA that are not mentioned here.

CostaDax (talk) 12:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)CostaDax[reply]

I updated the article to reflect recent changes and newly available information, and to be in agreement with the information on the main ESA page. CostaDax (talk) 12:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, good job. I see just a few minor issues -

The additional column for "ESA Convention signature" is describing a temporary limbo status between signature and finalizing the ratification procedure. As soon as the signatory state finalizes the technical details - it gets moved out of the table and this column becomes empty. I made a redaction putting the signature reference in a footnote. Signature column could be added to the "Completed enlargements" table instead (where new members get moved).

Israel - it is not an European State, thus I don't know if it can participate in the "European Cooperating State" program (especially considering the Canada example). Do we have a source that Israel will participate in ECS or is it one of the European_Space_Agency#Cooperation_with_other_countries_and_organisations?

you mentions EU candidates Croatia and Iceland, but there are other candidates not mentioned (Macedonia, Montenegro) and official potential candidates (Albania, Serbia, etc.) - I suggest that instead we keep the Iceland and Liechtenstein note. The current ESA members are all either EU or EFTA/EEA states, that's why I suggest that in "possible future cooperation" we mention the remaining EU and EFTA/EEA states. Alinor (talk) 10:41, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, thank you for responding to my messages. The "ESA Convention" column was not added by me. I thought it was a useful addition and that's why I kept it. But a footnote provides the same info, so let's keep it that way.

Regarding Israel's Cooperation Agreement: I did not add Israel and when I saw the addition I raised the same concern as you. I posted a note on the discussion page of ESA, and there was a reply making some points. So, I agreed to leave it that way (at least for the time being).

About the other possible candidates: We both agree on Iceland. Liechtenstein (although an EFTA/EEA member) is not a likely candidate. It is a microstate, does not have a space programme and is not considered by EU as a potential candidate. I haven't found any mention anywhere about Liechtenstein expressing any kind of interest in space activities. There is no documentation that relates EFTA/EEA membership to ESA potential candidacy. On the other hand, ESA is going to become an EU agency (tentatively by 2014), so membership of EU and ESA is going to coincide (with the exception of Norway and Switzerland). The reason I mentioned Croatia is that Iceland and Croatia are not just EU applicants or candidates, but they have started negotiations with the EU and they both are expected to become full EU members in 2013. Of course nothing is for sure yet. But this makes those two countries more likely ESA candidates in the near future than the rest of the EU applicants/candidates (Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia etc.). So I suggest we keep Croatia (and lose Liechtenstein). A penny for your thoughts! CostaDax (talk) 11:59, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[1] (mentions also ESA) - EEA/EFTA states participate in the EU research programs, including some space activities. It would not be so strange for Iceland and Liechtenstein to join ESA and even less strange to sign a cooperation agreement of some sort - they may be small and may have insignificant science and space communities, but that doesn't preclude them from joining and contributing proportionally to their abilities and economic size. Malta is not much bigger.

ESA may become EU agency (let's see if 2014 or later), but this doesn't mean that all EU members will automatically join ESA - there are other EU agencies with not uniform membership. Also, there are EU agencies where non-EU states are members (mostly EEA/EFTA states) - so ESA will become just another one of these.

I agree that Croatia and Iceland have a chance to join the EU soon, but none has finished negotiations yet. Also, any EU candidate can sign ESA cooperation agreement even before joining the EU, so I don't think we should mention some candidates and not others. At the same time I don't find it useful just to list 6-7 more states and say "these are EU candidates" (if there are news reports about some of them having interest in ESA - then we can mention them), that's why I propose sticking to EU/EEA/EFTA members. I propose that when Croatia joins, then to mentioned it (if it hasn't signed some ESA agreement beforehand). Alinor (talk) 13:12, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I gave it a lot of thought and I believe that we both make the same mistake. We make assumptions about a country's potential candidacy with ESA based on that country's affiliation with either the EU or with EFTA/EEA. That's all speculation. EU, EEA and EFTA are different organisations distinct from ESA. Their members/candidates/applicants/associates may never express any interest in ESA's activities (not to mention sign a Cooperation Agreement). So we both speculate (arguably or not) on a country's potential future motives. This is not a fact, therefore not information. I propose we stick to facts. Only Bulgaria and Malta have officially and publicly expressed an intention to sign an ESA Cooperation Agreement, so that's the only two countries we should mention. If ANY other country expresses a similar interest, then we should add it. What do you think? CostaDax (talk) 13:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. What about leaving some note such as "The other EEA/EFTA members and EU candidates have not yet publicly expressed intention to participate in ESA."? Alinor (talk) 07:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! I guess you want to do the revisions yourself. If not, let me know. Have a nice day and a nice week! CostaDax (talk) 07:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've done it. Please check if it's OK. Alinor (talk) 12:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can somebody who know how to do it fix the pic beside Enlargement section? Poland is still mark as a non member and it joined oficially on 19th of November. When the pic is small its like dat, when u click on it Poland is marked normal, dont know why is dat. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.233.5.247 (talk) 04:48, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Map

Hi wikifolk! If anyone is monitoring this page, I have a question about the PNG file European Space Agency Enlargement including Associates.png. Is it currently up to date? I believe Bulgaria and Slovakia, and possibly Croatia have now graduated to another stage of engagement. I am unfortunately wholly incapable of helping fix this problem. Many thanks! Endrū Hejs (talk) 10:55, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Iceland

Iceland has announced its intention to investigate joining the ESA, and seems to have entered the first stage of discussions as to accession.

See: http://icelandreview.com/news/2016/10/14/iceland-apply-european-space-agency, http://icelandreview.com/news/2017/11/08/european-space-agency-and-iceland-consider-partnership.

Qardys (talk) 20:41, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Slovakia

Slovakia is now associate member. 08:06, 14 October 2022 (UTC)