Talk:Hillary Clinton/Archive GA

GA review comments

• lead section too short. Also, please avoid one/two sentence paras (comment valid for the entire article). Please add reference to Hillary pre-2000 in the lead section.

  See "Lead section" below. Wasted Time R 18:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

  And, regarding the other comment, short paragraphs are not always bad. If the subject is short but very important and also unrelated to the paragraphs before or after it, a one- or two-sentence graph fits the bill. Such is the case with the graph about Chelsea being born. Wasted Time R 19:29, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

  Point well heeded on short paras. i will not flag small paras unless i feel that it does not adhere to the rule above. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

  In the lead, a suggestion - "In 1996 she became the first First Lady to be subpoenaed to testify before a Federal grand jury, as a ..." The sentences preceding this can be clubbed with the first para (thus taking thru Hillary's start, FL of arkansas and FL of US). Add a sentence before this line stating that Hillary from her early political days (arkansas) has been a polarizing figure having as many admirers as critics. She has been involved in a lot of controversies, ranging from minor (eg) to major. The logic is that this para will then capture her controversial nature and the last para will capture her carer as a senator. Hope this gels well. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

  I agree that the lead needs to say that she's a polarizing figure; that's the one obvious aspect of her that's missing. But the body of the article doesn't discuss this currently, either, and some convincingly cited material has to be added there to that effect first, before it can be put in the lead. Wasted Time R 00:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

• first lady of arkansas - provide timeline

  Done. Wasted Time R 19:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

• "She has two younger brothers, Hugh and Tony." - I am assuming that the article will not refer to these guys anymore. if so, can you please add a sentence on the occupation of these guys

They are wikilinked, so readers can find out more about them in their own articles. I added occupations, but am not sure they are needed thereTvoz |talk 05:53, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I asked the same to be added as they are not going to be mentioned anymore in the article. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• "Before graduating from Maine South High School, she received the school's first social science award." - need reference

  I couldn't find a source for this and it sounds perhaps minor anyway. I replaced it with her having become a National Merit Finalist, which is a more broadly familiar (in America) measure of success. Wasted Time R 02:45, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

  Fair enough. i will settle for this change. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• "Her parents encouraged her to pursue the career of her choice.[1]" - does this sentence have any relevance? i think we can remove this sentence

  Yes it's relevant. Many people have parents that try to push their children into certain fields, and back then many girls had parents who discouraged the idea of a career altogether. Wasted Time R 17:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

great. can you add this bit in the article (about being able to chose her career in an era where there was resistance to career from parents) unless it is universal knowledge amongst all americans. Kalyan 16:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• "In 1965, Rodham enrolled in Wellesley College." - which course?

I don't understand this comment - is it the word "enrolled" that is objected to? She graduated from high school and was accepted at Wellesley and enroled there. Works in American usage, I think, but we could rephrase if that's the question.Tvoz |talk 05:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Nope, i am not asking for clarification on the enrollement part. Which subject, topic, course did she enroll in? Kalyan 16:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. Tvoz |talk 17:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• "She attended the Wellesley in Washington program at the urging of Professor Alan Schechter, for whom she would write a senior thesis about the tactics of radical community organizer Saul Alinsky[6] that later became the subject of mystery." - somehow i feel that the message of the sentence is not coming out well. needs re-wording

  User:Tvoz took a shot at clarifying this, but by putting the 'mystery' part in a footnote, which buried amongst all the citing footnotes, no one will see. I've reworded it to try to briefly clarify why it became a mystery. Wasted Time R 11:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• "Around this time, she decided to join the Democratic Party." - what prompted her to join democratic party. needs info here

  Added. Wasted Time R 15:39, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

• "She became the first student in Wellesley College history to deliver their commencement address.[7]" - any particular reason, she was bestowed this honor?

• Now explained - she was president of the student government, and a group of students demanded that a student speak at the commencement, and suggested her. Wasted Time R 17:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

• " They lived there briefly and then moved .." - which year? same year?

  The timeline of where they lived and what Bill Clinton was running for was all messed up; I've now fixed it. Wasted Time R 20:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

• "capital of Little Rock, from which Bill conducted .." - it should be "capital of Little Rock, from where Bill conducted .."

  Fixed. Wasted Time R 23:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

• a few sentences after "Rodham became First Lady of Arkansas, her title for a total of 12 years.", i saw "In November 1980, Bill Clinton was defeated in his bid for re-election, but returned to office two years" - when i read the first line, it implied 1978 - 1990, but realised after reading the second sentence, it was 1978-1980 and 1982-1992. can you make this explicit?

  Fixed. Wasted Time R 23:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

• "...Hillary Rodham Clinton had chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee..." - chairperson term and years (19xx - 19xx). same for "Rural Health Advisory Committee", "Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families", "Arkansas Children's Hospital" and "Children's Defense Fund".

  I've added years and cites for most of these. Wasted Time R 14:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• Need to be specific on the years on board of private companies - TCBY, Wal-Mart Stores and Lafarge

  Done. Wasted Time R 23:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

• "As First Lady, Clinton supported women's rights and children's welfare around the world.[1]" - POV statement and since the source is the whitehouse website, all the more reason to remove it and substitute the text

  Junked (violated Show, don't tell). Wasted Time R 13:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• " Clinton hosted numerous White House conferences" - year? dates? total number?*:Don't know the total, but I gave years and cites for five of them, gets the idea across with more specificity than before. Wasted Time R 03:34, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

  Fair enough. However "White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)[65] and Philanthropy (1999)[66]." - can you interchange the conferences so that they follow the timelines. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• dates of serving on the congress committes - Committee on Armed Services, Committee on Environment and Public Works and Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions

  Done. Wasted Time R 01:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• "She was audibly booed in an audience of New York firefighters and police officers during her on-stage appearance at The Concert for New York City on October 20, 2001.[54]" - why?

  We aren't mindreaders, but basically they were distressed and drunk and she wasn't their type. Best not to attempt an explanation, just describe what happened. The article on the concert goes into greater detail. Wasted Time R 01:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The reference doesn't actually explain much - I'd look for a different reference and/or re-word or remove the sentence about the booing altogether. The logic doesn't flow in the paragraph - she worked for funding and was booed? (Also, not sure where you got the "drunk" from, but it could well be correct. I do agree that we can't speculate on it though and should let a ref explain it.) Tvoz |talk 05:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• "Mike Henry had managed Tim Kaine's successful campaign for Governor of Virginia in 2005, and coordinated the Democratic advertising efforts for the Senate elections of 2006." - what is his role in the presidential campaign?

  Deputy campaign manager. Added. Wasted Time R 01:58, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• "In early May, 2007, polls showed that Obama had overtaken Clinton,[109]but by May 7, 2007, new polling data indicated Clinton had reclaimed the lead.[110] [111]" - early may to may 7 is not a lot of time when obama was No. 1 choice. suggest replace early with an exact date

  The Obama "lead" was very transient and of no lasting significance, so I reworded it out. Wasted Time R 01:58, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• the controversies section is thread-bare. please add a summary from the controversies page.

  The major controversies (cattle futures, Whitewater, etc.) are already mentioned in the mainline sections, with links to their entries in the Controversies article. I don't see the value in repeating those specific mentions again. We've already had edit battles in trying to write a summary for this section, and attempts to expand it will just make the battles worse. Just because this summary is short doesn't mean it's bad. Wasted Time R 14:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

  I don't know. I think there should be some more info here, but i will not stop the GA for that. If someone opposes, i will take a neutral position. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• "Clinton published a weekly newspaper column entitled "Talking It Over", focusing " - which newspaper? what was the time period of this column?

  Explanations and cites added. Wasted Time R 13:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• "awards section" - same comment as controversies section - section has almost no data. please add summary from "Hillary Rodham Clinton awards and honors"

  It's a reference list of about 15 separate items. I don't see how it can be usefully summarized. This is the web, and that's what the wikilink is for! Wasted Time R 14:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

  Fair enough. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

* electoral history - ensure that the 2 tables are of the same width

• did it myself. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

In summary, i think that the article has the structure in place and needs more data for GA/FA nom. Kalyan 20:36, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh., by the way - i am not an american and don't have a political opinion of hillary clinton or the republicans or the democrats. i came across the GAN and revewied the article.Kalyan 20:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I have striked-off the comments that i think has been addressed. There are a few that either need addition to the article or explanation here and then i guess we are good to go. Kalyan 05:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)