Talk:Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe

Vanished Houses

@CaroleHenson. Re this edit: the 2005 edition does exist – there's a copy in front of me with all details as stated in the article, and Amazon.co.uk has a few copies for sale [1]. The only slight inconsistency is the formatting of the ISBN which was as shown on the verso of the title page, but which on the back cover is formatted as 0-9528645-2-5 which is more likely correct – 9528645 being a tiny publisher (see ISBN). Lobsterthermidor must have a copy of this edition too.

The introduction to the new edition states: "One major find has been added – Heanton Satchville in Petrockstowe.", so we can't cite the 1981 edition, and I've changed it back.  —SMALLJIM  08:31, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks for such a thorough job checking it out! It's good to know that there's someone watching!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:42, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Carole, you can't simply "update sources to latest versions". The ref is to a specific edition, which may have different text and page numbering. That's why I took care to give as my source the 2005 edition actually used by me, even though it was first published in 1981. Smalljim is correct. I've noticed your tendency to "update sources" in some of the other articles I've contributed to, and I don't think it's a good practice. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:08, 25 June 2013 (UTC))

Yep, I apologize. My mistake - I think that only happened in 2 cases and both were corrected. (In Monkleigh where I couldn't find any of the editions mentioned and I tagged them "full citation", which will be my practice going forward. For instance, recent books like Pevsner should have ISBNs - and the citations are often incomplete and/or not formatted correctly.) Could you, though, please use the good citations that have been corrected from recent articles Monkleigh, Annery, Monkleigh, Abbots Bickington, etc.? And, only use the citations for the portion of the text that comes from the source? That would help immensely!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:09, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Promotional tone?

The following paragraph is interesting, but should it be rewritten slightly for encyclopedic tone? (See WP:Encyclopedic style and WP:Promotion)

• The research of the Devon historian Rosemary Lauder brought this house "almost completely erased from memory" which has "for long years remained unknown" back into prominence in the 2005 second edition of her book "Vanished Houses of North Devon".

Any thoughts or suggestions?--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:16, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I reworded it to

• The nearly-forgotten house was featured in the 2005 edition of "Vanished Houses of North Devon".--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:20, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

References

Research question

In A View of Devonshire in MDCXXX: With a Pedigree of Most of Its Gentry, there's mention of a Nicholas Yeo who was of Heanton-Sachville.

This book The Visitations of County Devon, mentions a Nicholas Yeo who married an heiress, Elizabeth, daughter of Henry Killigren of Heanton Sachville. They had a son John, who married Alice. Their son William was the Sheriff of Devon, 1359 - which matches up to the William Yeo in the article.

Does it seem like a likely conclusion that the Killigren's first owned Heanton Sachville, and the Yeo descendents were Nicholas, John and William the Sheriff? (i.e., is this reliable information?)--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

This book, Magna Britannia] shows the estate descending from Sackvilles (Richard I to Henry III reigns) --> Killegrews ---> Yeos.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:46, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

 Done If anyone questions it though, let me know.--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:22, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Uncited information

I'm unable to find WP:Reliable sources for the following information:

Yeo

• The family of Yeo held the manor by subinfeudation under the Courtenays, Earls of Devon.
• Robert Yeo (d.1530) died seized of Heanton Satchville which he held from Henry Courtenay, 1st Marquess of Exeter (d.1539) as of his honour of Okehampton.

Walpole

• Margaret Yeo married Robert Walpole in 1570.
• Margaret Yeo married at age 15
• Margaret Yeo Walpole and Houghton Hall, "the grander Walpole residence in Norfolk, until, after leaving her husband, she went to live on the Continent.

Rolle

• Henry Rolle: died 1625,
• Henry Rolle or George Rolle: MP for Barnstable I'm not finding anything in this time period. There's a Henry Rolle who was an MP in the 1740s - a century later.
• Regarding Rolles having become the largest landholder in Devon, there's mention of that for the 19th century Rolles, but I cannot find it going back to these dates, nor a connection between Heanton making them the largest landholders.

Does anyone have citations for this information?--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Samuel Rolle lease

I don't understand why this lease information is included as a note to the article. Seems like WP:Detail

Lease info

{{#tag:ref|Some of the landholdings of Samuel Rolle are listed in the following lease dated 1704 to members of the Tuckfield family, relatives of his second wife Margaret Tuckfield, daughter of Roger Tuckfield of Raddon Court, near Crediton: Lease for a year: 1 Samuel Rolle of Heanton Satchville, Devon 2 William Davie of Creedy, Devon, Margaret Tuckfield of Raddon Court, Devon, Roger Tuckfield of Raddon Court, Devon and John Tuckfield of Exeter, Devon Property (1 to 2): manor, rectory and hundred of Puddletown, including Druce and Willoughbys farms; manors of West Anstey and Town, [?]Irnall, Cotleigh, Culbeer in Offwell, Bradwell in West Down and Ilfracombe, Heanton Satchville with the Barton farm and Hall Moor, Hele Territt alias Flemings Hele, and a tenement called Cuddimors, manor and advowson of Petrockstow, manor of Broom Park Yeate [in Heanton Satchville], manor and advowson of West Putford, manor of Buckish, manor of Nuton [?in East Putford], manor of Hartleigh [in Buckland Filleigh], manor of Sheepwash, manor of Newcourt [?in Holsworthy], manor of Gortleigh [in Sheepwash], manor of Merton, manor of Shebbear with property in Langtree, manor of Welcombe, and properties in Ashwater, Ringsash [Ashreigney], Great Torrington, Sheepwash, Shebbear, Langtree, Buckland Filleigh, Petrockstow, Peters Marland, West Putford, East Putford, Hartland, Woolfardisworthy, Highhampton, Hatherleigh, Jacobstowe, West Down, Ilfracombe, West Anstey, Cotleigh, Culbeer [in Offwell], Monkton, Offwell, Combe Raleigh, Bere Alston, Damierton [?Derriton], and Merton, all in Devon; manors of Norton Rolle, Marhamchurch, manor and borough of Callington, manors of Fursden, Nethercott, Trethavie, manor and rectory of Moorewinstow, properties in Maker, Millbrook, St John, Anthony, Sheviock, Calstock, St Neot, Garrans, Liskeard, Menheniot, St Cleer, Callington, South Hill, St Dominick, Tintagel, Morwenstow, Week St Mary and St Stephen's, and the manor of Barton and Inswork in Millbrook, Maker, St John and Anthony, all in Cornwall. Consideration: 5 shillings. |group="nb"}}

Would it be better to find a source that provides a summary of his holdings? Or, summarize this x number of manors in Cornwall, x number in Devon, etc.? Or, point out some key manors?--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:08, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree, even after I moved it to a footnote as a compromise, it still dominated the bottom of the article. Since it's a primary source, not used here for the purpose it was originally intended, I agree that it should be dropped. Its inclusion was, I understand, to show what a large amount of land Samuel Rolle owned, but since there's no indication of whether the list represents most of or just a tiny fraction of this, it has limited value, and it appears to be one of those rare survivals that Lt likes to include. If the landholdings were that significant, someone somewhere must have totted up the totals, and we could include this if we can find it.  —SMALLJIM  16:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'll see if I can find something that summarizes his landholdings.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:10, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Well you can if you want, but please don't take what I wrote as a request to do so. It would make an interesting snippet, but isn't vital to this article.  —SMALLJIM  19:42, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Not a problem, I did some searching and found some info and can "close the loop" on this point. By the way, thanks so much for your edits based upon the contents of the Lauder book, I couldn't get into that one!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:22, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

References

YEO & FULFORD marriages

A list of the YEO man and their wives contains the descent of the Manor from William Yeo (son), who married Joane Fulford, daughter of Sir Thomas Fulford of Fulford, Devon to Robert Yeo (son), who married Mary Fortescue, a daughter of Bartholomew Fortescue of Filleigh.

My research shows it was his brother Edward YEO who married Joane daughter of Sir Thomas FULFORD of Fulford and had issue Robert & Humphrey (Worthies of Devon by Prince Pg 773)

William YEO married Jane daughter of Sir Thomas FULFORD of Fulford and had issue Alice, Joan, Robert (s&h)and Humphrey (2nd son) (Devonshire Pedigrees by John TUCKETT)

Wiilliam & Jane's son Robert YEO married Margaret (not Mary) FORTESCUE (Devonshire Pedigrees by John TUCKETT) and inherited Heanton Sackviille.

Margaret YEO daughter of Robert YEO & Margaret FORTESCUE married Henry ROLLE (Devonshire Pedigrees by John TUCKETT)

Does anyone have any other references to sort this out?

Nancy Frey Windsor, ON OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset ncanuck@gmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sophronia13 (talk • contribs) 17:43, 7 November 2018 (UTC)