Talk:Headquarters and headquarters company (United States)

Merger proposal

Have we considered merging Headquarters and Service Company into this article? Most of the information there seems to be copied and pasted directly from here (or vice versa). I can see two ways of carrying this out

1. Create a heading in this article, either "Headquarters and Services Company" or "United States Marine Corps" or similar, and cover the differences from army organization there.
2. Rename this article to "Headquarters company" or similar, and also cover similar organizational structures in other armies (if applicable)

2 makes more sense to me, as it would make integrating content on other armies easier, but I don't know what would be an appropriate title for the new article. If there is a specific bit of military jargon for "company containing the commander, but with its own commander", that'd probably be best. Thoughts? Charlotte Aryanne (talk) 22:27, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

• I have created a Headquarters and Service Company article (q.v.) that addresses the specifics of the USMC unit.CobraDragoon (talk) 21:52, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

While they're similar, it wouldn't be appropriate. They are the proper names for types of companies. mcornelius (talk) 15:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Someone tell me I am wrong here: A battalion consists of a Headquarters and Headquarters Company and the respective downtrace companies like the FSC. HHC is basically two components in one. Headquarters is led of course by the Battalion Commander, his Executive Officer and the Battalion Command Sergeant Major. The Battalion Commander also has his staff section leaders like S1 (admin) OIC and NCOIC, S4 (supply) OIC and NCOIC and S6 (coms) OIC and NCOIC, etc. I just happen to be the Battalion Medical Readiness NCO. I am a member of the battalion commander’s staff. I am in Headquarters. Headquarters Company is led by a company commander (usually O2 or O3), an Executive Officer and a First Sergeant. Then you have company-level sections S1-S6, OICs and NCOICs who work for the company and answer to the company commander. The Executive Officer of Headquarters, who happens to be a MAJ doesn’t fall under the command or even the direction of the Headquarters Company leadership. The commander of Headquarters Company doesn’t outrank the battalion XO. In the same respect, the commander of Headquarters Company doesn’t outrank the battalion S3 OIC and doesn’t lead the battalion S3 NCOIC who happens to be a Master Sergeant. The battalion S3 are staff positions and work for the battalion commander and not the company. As a member of battalion staff, I answer to the medical OIC, a physician assistant (O2) who is ALSO a member of the battalion commander’s staff. Our section is a battalion-level element and NOT company level. I do not fall under the command or direction of the headquarters company commander. Am I wrong about this? Am I wrong to think that the commander of Headquarters Company isn’t my commander? I can’t even get a straight answer from those well above me in rank and responsibility, but think about it for a second: even a brigade or division-size element has a Headquarters and Headquarters Company. And the Headquarters Company is led typically by a captain, right? Is the Division 3-shop OIC who is typically a “full bird” under the command and control of a captain because said captain is the commander of the Division Headquarters Company? I think not, and not because of rank. Because of position. One is a staff-level officer position for the division and one is a company-level officer position for the company element WITHIN Division HQ. This is my rant for the week because I cannot begin to tell you how tired I am of having people to whom I do not answer to CONSTANTLY telling me what to do, CONSTANTLY telling me what my job is and what needs to be done. It’s very much like that scene in the movie “Office Space” when Peter tells the “Bobs” that he has eight different bosses. One person who thinks they are the boss of me tells me one thing, then I get told by someone of higher rank to do something completely different meanwhile neither of them know what right “looks like”. Even when I was just as Sergeant I knew that as a team leader, the E4s and below answered to me and I reported to a squad leader who reported to a platoon sergeant who reported to a First Sergeant who is under the company commander. Why on earth does it seem that nobody else gets this? Am I wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 55.128.28.92 (talk) 21:24, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Explanation of who 'commands' in a Headquarters Company

You are incorrect. The Headquarters Company Commander is the "commander" of everyone in the Company - including everyone on the battalion staff - for administrative purposes, just like any other company commander. I was a HHC commander. If the Battalion Commander wanted to go on leave, I signed his leave request. If the Battalion S3 needed to go to a school, then I signed his TDY paperwork.

If I understand you correctly above, you are not a member of the Battalion Staff. You work for the battalion surgeon, who is on the staff, but you are not. If UCMJ action needs to be done on you, it begins with the company commander. Your OIC may sign-off in the supervisor section of your leave form, but the HHC Commander approves it. If you fail your PT test, then the HHC Commander gets involved, not your OIC or the BC.

Of course, neither the BC or any of the staff flunkies report or answer to the company commander, but the company commander handles all their administrative actions. If a higher commander relieves the battalion commander, then the administrative action begins with the company commander.

You are confusing administrative command and control with operational control.

I don't think I am the one who confuses those things. It is for sure the last HCC "commander" who confused admin command and operation command because an engineer officer doesn't tell a medical NCO how the job is to be done.

The Battalion medical officer was a Physician Assistant. That officer was a member of the battalion commander's staff and I reported directly to the PA for things pertaining to the medical readiness of the entire battalion. You as an HHC commander were not the "commander" of everyone in the HHC because the XO, the CSM and all of the members of the battalion commander's staff didn't take commands from you. If the BC or the XO or CSM wanted to go on leave, you couldn't deny them that leave request because you had no rank or position authority over them. How absurd it would be if a captain could deny a LTC, a MAJ or the Battalion CSM his/her leave? A Battalion CSM doesn't care what you think. That CSM answers to the BC and the BC alone. Your signature may have been required, but you couldn't have refused the request. My position was "Battalion Medical Readiness NCO". Does that sound like a company-level position? I worked directly for the battalion surgeon who worked for the BC. Did the Headquarters Company Commander tell me how to do my job? He was an engineer officer. So, to put it bluntly, no he did not. He tried, but he failed miserably. He didn't have the expertise or authority to tell me how to do medical coverage of any high-risk event. Could he tell me to give someone an IV or NOT to give someone a particular treatment? Nope. He held rank, but had no authority to tell me how to do my job and he sure as hell didn't have the power to tell the PA how to tell ME to do my job. The battalion PA could tell me all day long. But an engineer officer? What the hell does a man who makes things go "boom" know about medical care? About as much as I know about how to make things go "boom". And while the Headquarters Company Commander may have signed off on my leave request after the battalion PA approved it, if the CO denied it I would just ask the BC and he would approve it (and he did). Just like the civilian SSA who though he could deny, or as he put it "revoke" my leave. He also thought he could counsel me and bark orders at me and he found out real fast that he couldn't. My rating chain was the S1 NCOIC and the battalion XO. So what the Headquarters Company Commander thought was irrelevant. He didn't rate me and had no power to tell me how to do my job. Since leaving that unit, I am glad to say that the new battalion XO has put the jackass Captain in his place and set him straight that he has his 1SG, who has his PSGs, who have their SLs and TLs and that he doesn't bark orders at the BC's staff. That's the whole problem with the US Army. Too many people think they are in charge simply because they hold rank. People probably thought the same thing about you from time to time.