Talk:Chinese people in Ghana

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 08:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ghanaian Chinese → Chinese people in Ghana – Revert undiscussed, unilateral move to a neologism which has unnecessarily narrowed the topic of the article (from "all Chinese migrants in Ghana" to "Ghanaian citizens of Chinese descent") and which is not used in any of the reliable sources cited in the article. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 09:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC) 61.18.190.15 (talk) 07:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It's also worth noting that if the move to "Ghanaian Chinese" had been proposed through WP:RM it would almost certainly not have achieved consensus even if there were some sources found using that term. Look at similar previous failed move requests like Talk:Russians in China#Requested move, Talk:Chinese people in Burma#Requested move. 61.18.190.15 (talk) 07:33, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The current title is ambiguous. — AjaxSmack 02:05, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly Disagree. The title is correct and straight to the point such as "Sino-Mauritian". Although there is a proportionate amount of ethnic Chinese in Ghana who may not have Ghanaian citizenship, there is a proportionate amount of ethnic Chinese in Ghana who have Ghanaian citizenship. Chinese people have been present in the Gold Coast in the early 1940s before it became independent then later becoming Ghana in 1957. I don't see how someone can call Ghanaian citizens of Chinese descent or Mixed Chinese descent in Ghana "Chinese people in Ghana" when ethnic Chinese have been present in Ghana for 80 years now and just 20 years shy of a "Century", and especially when ethnic Chinese have migrated to and have been resident in a Country (Gold Coast --> Ghana) 20 years before its Independence. The title "Ghanaian Chinese" is the suitable term in this situation. MarkMysoe (talk) 12:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- In American usage, which is familiar to many Wikipedia readers, "Ghanaian Chinese" would often be seen as "a Chinese person of Ghanaian ancestry". Cf. Chinese Australian, Chinese South Africans, &al that follow this format. Most other articles listed at the Template:Overseas Chinese follow the format of "Chinese people in..." proposed here and I don't see any sources using the current title. — AjaxSmack 20:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - If the current title is to be changed then it should rather be entitled "Chinese Ghanaian" and not "Chinese people in Ghana" as you have stated with the other articles on Wikipedia using "Chinese _______". The South Africa article uses "Chinese South Africans" and not "Chinese people in South Africa" for its ethnic Chinese in South Africa for the same reason I mentioned in my last comment. There is also no source stating that ethnic Chinese and Ghanaian citizens of Chinese descent or Mixed Chinese descent in Ghana are entitled "Chinese people in Ghana". The other article's that you have stated in Template:Overseas Chinese that are mostly using the "Chinese people in ______" may- if actually well researched be entitled "Chinese _______" or something else, rather than "Chinese people in ______". If the current title should be re-titled, It really should be entitled "Chinese Ghanaian". MarkMysoe (talk) 04:36, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - U.K. usage (and the usage in former colonies) tends to put the country of ethnic origin second rather than first as in the American usage, c.f. Malaysian Chinese (ethnic Chinese who live in Malaysia, not Malaysians living in China), Burmese Indians, British Pakistanis, etc. However in the specific case of Ghana neither "Ghanaian Chinese" nor "Chinese Ghanaian" are actually the common name in reliable sources. Conal Ho (the only scholar I am aware of who has looked into this issue in depth; and on whose work this Wikipedia article is actually based as you can see in the References section) refers to "Chinese presence in Ghana", "Chinese expatriates in Ghana", "Chinese community in Ghana", etc. Barry Sautman (another major scholar of China-Africa relations, who is cited in some Wikipedia articles about Chinese people in other African countries) doesn't use these "double-barrelled" forms either. 61.18.190.15 (talk) 10:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ghana is a sovereign country and has its own scholars. It is not my thought that you are only aware of published works about ethnic Chinese in Ghana by Conal Ho and Barry Sautman. If you live in Ghana or are in Ghana then a excess of information regarding ethnic Chinese in Ghana could easily be accessed, but you don't live in Ghana and are not in Ghana. If you lived in Ghana or are in Ghana I would happily help you to find out the information on ethnic Chinese in Ghana. Once again Ghana has its own scholars. If you did not know that Africa has 54 fully recognized sovereign states ("countries"), 9 territories and three de facto states with limited recognition. Africa is not a "Country", it is a "Continent --> The second biggest Continent in the World" with sovereign countries.

The works by Conal Ho and Barry Sautman are in the form of the history of ethnic Chinese in Ghana. Once again ethnic Chinese have been resident in Ghana, since the early 1940s, in the predecessor of the Gold Coast which later became Ghana in 1957. The term for someone born in Ghana and is "Ghanaian by Birth" and of Chinese descent is Chinese Ghanaian but Chinese Ghanaian are interchangeable. In history, you should know that Ghana was the first country in Sub-Sahara Africa to gain independence and was also the richest country on the African continent with a highly advanced infrastructure and economy for that time period in the early to mid 1960s and its GDP in the early to mid 1960s was on par with South Korea's GDP in the early to mid 1960s. Ghana was also vastly richer than South Africa in the early to mid 1960s.

Unfortunately Ghana's first president Kwame Nkrumah, who was responsible for Ghana being the richest country on the African continent at that time, was overthrown in a military coup d'état in 1966 while Kwame Nkrumah was in China visiting his good friend Mao Zedong. After 1966 to 1993 Ghana was continually ruled by military dictators, then Ghana's "advance economy and infrastructure" which it was leading other African countries before 1966 severely "deteriorated". It was not until 7 January 1993 that the Fourth Republic of Ghana was inaugurated then Ghana returned to "Democracy" with its first president of the Forth Republic being Jerry Rawlings. Ghana has had peaceful and democratic elections since 1992 which has partly contributed to the lack of industrialization of that of South Africa. Ghana's GDP growth rate has been 5-6% per year since 1992 and was 14% in 2011 which was the highest in not only Africa, but second highest in the World. Ghana now has one of the fastest growing economies in the world and the fastest growing in Africa. Ghana is also the 5th most peaceful (i.e. Low crime rate) county in Africa and the 50th most peaceful country in the World. There is more ethnic Chinese in Ghana who were "Ghanaian at birth" than those who have recently arrived in Ghana. Those of the recently arrived ethnic Chinese in Ghana, just marry those ethnic Chinese in Ghana who were "Ghanaian by birth" and they gain Ghanaian citizenship (i.e. Ghanaian passport) in that way. Believe me that if you live in Ghana or are in Ghana you would be able to see the large presence of ethnic Chinese in Ghana, even larger than that of South Africa and Angola, so because you do not live in Ghana and are not in Ghana you cannot see this. Also it doesn't help when Ghana is really not in the worldwide public news such as South Africa, but if it was, you would definitely be able to see the large presence of the ethnic Chinese and ethnic Indians of Ghana. MarkMysoe (talk) 09:50, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support, for consistency and disambiguity. MarkMysoe, I am reading your statements and they make little sense. Ghanaian Chinese and Chinese Ghanaian are not interchangeable. I could deduce that you thought the reverse and used that to back up your statement. Hill Crest's WikiLaser (Boom.) (talk) 16:05, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Hillcrest98, I' am pretty sure there arn't many people that will agree with you that the statements that I have posted above make little sense. Hillcrest98, I used the title "Ghanaian Chinese" as it is used in Malaysia as Malaysian Chinese. The previous statements that I made above were acknowledging the fact that ethnic Chinese in Ghana have been present in Ghana since the early 1940s, before Ghana was even a country and called Ghana. The total period of ethnic Chinese in Ghana is almost 100 years (a Century), so I don't see how Ghanaian citizens of Chinese descent should be called "Chinese people in Ghana", and for that reason I have concluded that the correct and conclusive title that should be used is "Ghanaian Chinese", but if it is to be re-named at all, then "Chinese Ghanaian". MarkMysoe (talk) 02:02, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, did I point a finger at you? The reason why I opposed is that it would be like moving (for example) Hungarian American to American Hungarian. However, you have proved a point in one of your own previous comments! Thanks for the response. Hill Crest's WikiLaser (Boom.) (talk) 03:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.