Talk:Freerunning

Call for consensus on "freerunning"

At this point, the term "freerunning" (as opposed to "free running" with a space) should be used throughout this article. I'm not changing it quite yet because there are mixed opinions, so if you disagree, please say so and discuss the issue, otherwise I'll just make the change if no one objects. Here's my reasoning, I think it's solid:

1. The definite source as reasoned by someone above in a 2008 post has changed. The site (here) now uses "freerunning" instead of "free running". If this was a main argument for "free running", the condition has now changed.

2. The lack of a space is a natural, standard, default progression for any two-word term that creates a unique concept frequently referred to.

3. A space is only when a term like this has not become popular or official. Keeping a space declares freerunning to be an unofficial term not adopted into proper English/French/etc., which at the very least, contradicts the article's nature.

4. Audibly, this is how it's pronounced. Nobody says "free [pause] running". The grammar of the term should reflect the way it's spoken by professionals and practitioners.

5. Athletic youth, with great respect, is one of the last categories of people that sit around and edit dictionaries and encyclopedias. Wikipedia should intelligently promote a proper and natural standard, not wait out the inevitable evolution. Squish7 (talk) 14:48, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I examined things a tad further and decided to make the changes. It's a pretty overwhelmingly obvious change that should be made. I left the title (and stuff at the very bottom of the source code; I'm not sure what it means) alone, as I'm not 100% sure of the transition process and consequences of changing these things.

Note that this change should probably be made system-wide; i.e. in all articles referencing the term. Squish7 (talk) 15:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Agreed Feraess (talk) 09:15, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Freerunning vs. Parkour

The article as written is terribly vague on how freerunning is any different from Parkour. I personally don't believe it is, and "freerunning" is merely a personal attitude of a single famous Parkour practitioner, and so having a whole unique Wiki page seems like shameless self-promotion. There is nothing new actually "created" here, and so the page is even inaccurate in that respect. I propose that any mention of freerunning should be incorporated into the main "parkour" wiki-page. In the popular vernacular the two terms are basically synonymous as it is, and even amongst practitioners I have yet to meet or learn of anybody who can actually describe any difference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.206.235.88 (talk) 18:06, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi! (For reference, I'm not Sebastien Foucan)

Parkour is a training discipline where you train by trying to move past obstacles. Freerunning is a training system where you train by doing anything that you feel will benefit you. I'm sure the article could be improved though.

The discussion about merging this article into the Parkour article has taken place a number of times throughout the past few years, and the consensus is that this article should stay separate. I think there is a clear statement of what Freerunning is, and I think that it is clear that it is defined in a different way than Parkour is.

I think the net result of practising Freerunning will be similar to the result of practising Parkour, and given that one is a lot broader than the other there is some overlap in how people practise them, but the two do exist separately. The terms do describe different things and so seem to deserve separate mentions.

Is there any one sentence in the article that you feel is inaccurate? Feraess (talk) 22:14, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm mostly ditto to Feraess. The debate/war whether FR (freerunning) should have a separate article from PK (parkour) is timeless and unending. I'm practically too tired of it to have an opinion anymore, but one thing is for sure, they are definitely distinct concepts, almost in the way a word can be a loose synonym for another in daily conversation, but which has strictly a different definition and usage as established by all the literary works over time that have used either of them. They are not the same thing by any means. The most striking demonstration of this is the malice that a lot of strict/core traceurs (PK practitioners) express toward FRers who call what they do "parkour". The former define PK as definitively a personal discipline/philosophy that discludes "showing off" or performing for money. (There are a lot of hate posts on youtube angry that a video/title proclaims the vid to be PK when it's more FR.)

So say you live in a very dense city (all buildings, no green anywhere), and you have to get from where you are to a train stop as quickly as possible. Strict PK would be jumping over railings, scaling cement walls, and pushing old ladies out of the way (or jumping over them), to get there as fast as humanly possible (within your skillset). FR would be taking various creative detours for adventure, or just running around aimlessly for fun, or stopping in the street to perform tricks for people, or to have someone film you and then put music to it.

They are fused quite often because you can interpret FR in terms of PK. If I map out a running route that passes through points A, B, C, D, and E (Store to park to cemetery, etc), then when I go directly from A to B as fast as possible, I'm utilizing PK to do that, and then from B to C, etc, even though I'm not taking the most efficient route from A to E (which would be to skip the park, cemetery, etc). Another gray area would be to have someone follow you around with a camera all day long while you move efficiently and ignore the camera, then put the video to music and put it on youtube and put ads on it to monetize. That's like: Well, this was PK, because I really did have to get to the store then visit my grandparents in the cemetery, honestly, I was just jumping over gravestones to the one I wanted, but now that someone caught me on camera, I suppose you could say I did all that to show off and earn money, but I didn't know youtube had a monetize feature to start with!

Put 1 more way, it's like moving a 3D video game character directly to a goal (PK), vs running around aimlessly to explore (FR).

To quote Douglas Adams (non sequitur to PK/FR):

Bypasses are devices that allow some people to dash from point A to point B very fast while other people dash from point B to point A very fast. People living at point C, being a point directly in between, are often given to wonder what's so great about point A that so many people from point B are so keen to get there, and what's so great about point B that so many people from point A are so keen to get there. They often wish that people would just once and for all work out where the hell they wanted to be.

If you want a long detailed debate on the matter go to talk:Ryan_Doyle section 14 "Parkour practitioner or freerunner?". There's also an endless going column of text on the matter on User talk:Feraess between the two of us. Squish7 (talk) 11:05, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Looking back at the article after I've written this, you may be right that it's not explained well. This is partially a result of the page being torn in and out of the PK article. It's very difficult to extract a subsection from one page and expand it in another, or v.v. Feraess recently restored/rewrote this page and it may take time to really get it crystal clear. (It's much more difficult to establish perfect clarity in an article with solid references than to write a blurb here.) Squish7 (talk) 11:21, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

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Summary

It says Freerunning "is a discipline that was create to be a more inclusive form of parkour" and then it says "freerunning is a type of parkour that includes tricking". These don't sound like the same thing. If we are talking about the same word being applied to two different things, it needs to specify: "freerunning can refer to a discipline created to be a more inclusive form of parkour, or it can refer to a style of parkour including elements of tricking". If they aren't two different things, it shoudl be rephrased, because it's not obvious what is being said to a reader who doens't know much about about any of it...which is exactly the person these articles ought to be written for.70.109.132.119 (talk) 02:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Freerunning vs. Parkour

There should be a section on differences between those two. To a casual reader, like myself, those two seem like the same thing. Like parkour is freerunnig but with a copyright name to make money of off already existing thing. 213.149.62.88 (talk) 18:29, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Origins

The introduction currently says that freerunning was invented by Rory Allen, but the history section tells a completely different story. I myself know nothing about it, but it would be great if someone who does could reconcile the differences. 95.90.232.49 (talk) 09:35, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Injuries and Deaths

Xyxyzyz (talk) 02:31, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• November 2013 - A person died when they attempted to jump from the roof of a five storey building to the roof of another building and they fell to the ground.

References

• October 2019 - It was reported that a person "... who fell from the first floor of a house while doing parkour... ended up in various fractures." and also received "a severe head injury". The person had attempted to jump from the roof of their house to the roof of another house and fell five metres and remained in a serious condition which was non-life threatening.

References

• November 2019 - A person attempted to jump from the roof of a building onto the roof of another buidling, fell down 5 storeys to the ground and later regained consciousness in hospital.

References

• November 2019 - It was reported that a person "...fell yesterday from the roof of the Cascione swimming pool... while doing parkour...". They "had fallen from a height of six meters after a jump that had landed him on a porthole that gave way." They received a thoracic polytrauma injury, underwent surgery and received a reserved prognosis and was not in imminent danger.

References

August 2019

• In August 2019 a person had been jumping across consecutive roof edges when they came across the path of a wire blocking the way and began balancing on top of it over the side of a 25 story building. A second person came over and pulled them back onto the ledge. They received minor burns from the electrical wire.

References

Xyxyzyz (talk) 17:14, 7 June 2020 (UTC)