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Why this page should not be deleted

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The group is quite real. Their history is [1]. The homepage is [2]. Will (Talk - contribs) 05:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I rewrote several passages of the article and collected information from the websites noted to flesh it out. It may not be completely "wiki-pretty", but it's more now than what it was. I think anyone who won national awards in their genre are deserving of an article. Please help make this one better. First Call was a great group and they deserve mention. --Eddylyons (talk) 21:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I too think that First Call is a wonderful group, however, we need to make sure that the items you added are verifiable and citable before they can be allowed to stay in the article. I will give you the chance to cite the things you wrote before I tag them or remove them. Everything added to this article must be proven. So I appreciate your help and hope that you can help by citing your additions. Thank you Junebug52 22:25, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for taking a look. I've cited what I can from the articles that were available, and from the web resources I gathered my own information from. Some of the information is from news articles and from the websites noted in the External Links. Please help me by tagging what else you think needs citing. --Eddylyons (talk) 20:55, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You did a wonderful job on citing your sources. I deleted the tag and want to thank you for your work. I still feel the article needs to be expanded and more substance needs to be placed into the article. I will start looking in some of my articles and archives to see what I can find that will be sourcable. Junebug52 22:38, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Moved from my talk page

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The following was left on my talk page as two edits: here

Acting on behalf of one of the group members, changes are to update the information, add discretion, correct factual errors and to add relevant links. All edits are in that category. You have done a great job of documenting the recording history. Please note that all of the Reference section links except one are no longer working.Curatorzzk (talk) 03:41, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Walter,

I apologize if I’ve broken some wikipedia rules. I’m new here. Thanks for your helpful guides on conflict of interest which I will read when it’s not so late!

Our goals are well-meaning and as I described to you earlier. And respectfully, some of my edits throughout were simply to simplify the writing and not to disrespect the work you and others may have done on the page. Would you please remove all the invalid links? Please note that where reference links are invalid, information cannot be deemed “well-referenced” and protected from correction or removal.

listed below are some inaccuracies.

First Call was an American contemporary Christian music (CCM) group, originally consisting of Mel Tunney, Marty McCall, and Bonnie Keen.[1]

First Call is still performing. They are not past tense. Reference link is invalid

Mel's husband, Dick Tunney, acted as the arranger and producer for many of the group's early projects.

Partially accurate, but misleading - while Dick Tunney is a great friend to the group and has collaborated with First Call off and on, the specific inclusions in this article give an inappropriately prominent impression of his involvement.

In the 1970s, McCall was a member of a band called Fireworks,[2] Reference link is invalid

while Keen was pursuing a career in musical theater.[3] Reference link is invalid

They met at a studio in Nashville, Tennessee, singing backup for other singers and recording commercial jingles. Dick Tunney met the two during such a session and struck up a friendship. He introduced them to his singer-wife, Melodie.

this is misleading - partially inaccurate history

The three saw a benefit in marketing themselves as a ready-made trio for backup vocals and other studio recordings. They were considered the "first call" by music producers—first choice for studio work. But the term also fit with their belief in making their Christian beliefs first in their lives.[4]

Reference link is invalid, writing can be improved

None of the three initially foresaw a recording or touring career. As a side project to their backing vocal careers, they agreed to record an a cappella Christmas album called An Evening In December. The album sold very well on the Contemporary Christian market, and propelled the trio into their own music projects.[4]

Reference link is invalid

Offers began to come in from high-profile CCM artists such as Amy Grant and Sandi Patty to join them on tour.

Misleading. At this point, they were invited to go on the Sandi Patti tour. Amy Grant was two albums later.

Their first album of non-Christmas music, Undivided (1986), was followed by Something Takes Over (1987) and God Is Good (1989). The two Christmas music collections, An Evening in December Volume I (1985) and Volume II (1987), have long been bestsellers in the group's catalog. Many comparisons have been made to the group's style similarity to the recording group The Manhattan Transfer[5] and the New York Voices.

Reference link is invalid

Around 1989, Melodie expressed a desire to try different styles of music, and left the group in 1990, yet continued her friendship with Marty and Keen.[4][6] Marabeth Jordan, another session singer, joined the group's ranks.[7]

Reference links invalid

The new lineup saw two successful albums, Human Song (1992) and Sacred Journey (1993). Then in 1994 came news that Jordan was involved in an affair with fellow CCM artist Michael English, both of whom were married to other people at the time. The media attention surrounding the affair cost First Call their record deal and Marabeth left the group shortly thereafter.[8]

Reference link does not link to article

It is certainly debatable whether or not to include someone else’s twenty-plus year old failure. This is not necessarily decided because it was well-publicized, but by asking what purpose it serves. It doesn’t erase the history to exclude specific details in this profile. If it is to be included it needs valid reference links.


After the incident, Melodie Tunney returned to the group for a short period to try to reduce damage to the group's image and complete their touring obligations. She also lent her vocals to several projects in which the group was currently involved. In late 1994, First Call acted as the backup group for David L. Cook's inspirational single, "When Heaven is My Home". The song was written and produced for Cook by Dick Tunney.

Misleading history. Odd inclusion of fairly non-central details on Dick Tunney in an article on First Call. Perhaps from a specifically Tunney-focused article (?).

After signing with Warner Alliance, another Christmas album, 1995's Beyond December, and the eponymously titled album First Call of 1996 were recorded by Marty and Bonnie as a duo.[4]

Reference link is invalid

After reuniting the original group to record two songs for some compilation projects, music publishers Discovery House signed the members of the original lineup to record together again. Their new collection, entitled Rejoice, was released in 2007.[4]

Reference link is invalid Left out the Christmas Concert & Reunion Tours

Marty McCall was the pastor of Vocal Ministries at McLean Bible Church for 16 years and now is a freelance worship and vocal coach. [9][10] [11] in McLean, Virginia.

Some reference links invalid Gives no indication of Bonnie Keen or Melodie Tunney’s accomplishments apart from First Call. Again, unbalanced.

Missing history, particularly the 2015 CCM United, Together We Stand event.

Missing Grammy win. - Shared win with on multi-artist Tribute - The Songs of Andrae Crouch.

Regarding the group member links - you know the rules, not me, but they are to the professional sites of the members which include more First Call resources, not personal sites. And BTW, member sites with bad links were included in the reference section.

Anyway, I have a lot to learn about Wikipedia and I appreciate your input. My goal is to contribute accurate and helpful information and for the page to be a good representation of the group. (Which I’m sure, looking at all the work you’ve done, is a goal you share.)Curatorzzk (talk) 05:32, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I will comment only on two things. First, the "references are invalid" part. The Internet doesn't misplace anything. I'm sure the following has happened to you. You've find a great blog post, or article, or web page of some sort and save its location for later viewing. Depending on your browser, that's called adding it as a favourite or bookmarking it. Later, that site reorganizes and the saved location is no longer valid. That's what happened with the CCM Magazine reference. In Wikipedia terms, it's a WP:DEADLINK. There are several services that gather information on the web and we have programs that can compare lists of our dead links to those archives to connect us to a working version. So no, we won't remove the invalid links any more than we'll remove the content that is associated with it. We will mark the references as being a {{deadlink}} and let the bots do their job. One in particular can be seen here: https://web.archive.org/web/20010305150609/http://www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/2000/006/1.42.html , so we don't even need to get the bot involved.
As for missing information, we need sources otherwise the information can be challenged and possibly removed. I have the CCM United, Together We Stand album. The group end the first disc with a 4:21 rendition of "Undivided". It also sounds as though they add BGVs, but the liner notes only give the primary artist and copyright information for each of the 42 songs performed. There is also a special thanks section where Dick Tunney is credited as associate music director (and he's credited inside as an orchestrator). Perhaps the book by Stan Moser offers more insight or there are additional details at http://ccmunited.com . You might want to look at WP:RS. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:06, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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