Talk:Fionn mac Cumhaill

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Since Fionn's father was Cumhaill Bascinn, does that mean that Corca Baiscinn of County Clare are descendants? Furthermore, are people with the last name Baskin (anglicized) from the same line? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.50.243 (talk) 04:41, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Can anybody add on the alternate spellings of his name as redirects to this site. Ie. Finn Mac Cumhail, Finn Mac Cool, Fingal, Finn MacCool, Fion Mac Cumhail, etc.

I've just done that; thanks for asking. (I came to this page after looking for Finn MacCumhail]; that was how the Dropkick Murphys spelled it.) However, I didn't redirect Fingal here; that article is about a county in Ireland. --Idont Havaname 07:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Americanization?

In a travel map I purchased, sponsored by ENCO in 1960, it describes an Americanized tale of the giant Finn MacCool (sic). In this version he was an engineer who "wanted to flatten the Rockies to make coast-to-cost travel easier." Finding opposition, he instead created the Grand Canyon. Kevingarcia 07:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Granted I could be wrong but I think you may have Finn confused with the american legend Paul Bunyan. Ultratone85 14:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Death?

Didn't Finn McCool die strapped to a rock, not unlike Prometheus?--70.50.77.34 02:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

That was Cuchullain. --Cúchullain ^t/c 06:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

... and while Prometheus was chained to a rock by the gods as punishment for giving mankind the knowledge of fire, Cúchullain tied himself to a rock so that he could stand up and his enemies would not know that he was weak and dying 91.123.236.5 (talk) 14:49, 24 November 2017 (UTC) Greg

Bisexuality

Earlier this morning (6-12-06), Finn was mentioned as being bisexual. Though this is removed, was that simply spam, or was there a real basis to that, though I have never heard of Finn ever being said as bisexual.

It was just vandalism, that's why it was taken out. It happens quite a bit around here.--Cúchullain ^t/c 23:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

It arises from a legitimate but controversial reading of the source literature, but there is resistance to permitting discussion. 74.215.50.184 (talk) 19:26, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Why is the mac lower case?

Why is the mac in "mac cumhail" in lowercase? While I'm fully aware that mac and ua were not always capitalised in earlier forms of Irish, they now are. I think the naming of this article should reflect modern conventions in the spelling of Irish. --Damac 11:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If it was a surname, you'd be right, but it's not, it's a patronymic, literally Fionn son of Cumhal. If you wrote a name like that in English you wouldn't use a capital S for "son". Fionn mac Cumhail, where "mac Cumhail" means "son of Cumhal" and is not a modern surname, is the correct usage in modern Irish as much as in earlier Irish. --Nicknack009 17:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Misspelling

The name Cumhal should be Cumhall. Irish is my own first language and I know for a fact that nobody writes "Fionn mac Cumhail" but "Fionn mac Cumhaill". All of the other "alternative versions" of his name are anglicised gobledgook. We should stick to what native Irish speakers actually use. Irish historically difrentiated between what are known as tense and lax nasals and labials, hense the double "l" in "Cumhall", genitive "Cumhaill" with corresponding palatalisation of final "l". An Muimhneach Machnamhach 11:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the article on your behalf... Robwingfield ^(talk) 14:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Surely on the English Wikipedia this shouldn't be an issue because the article should use the English name anyway. Any story I read or was read as a child all used the name Finn McCool. I understand that with actual people's names there is an argument (I believe it's standard practice) to use the Gaelic form of the name if that's what they use, but common sense on this one must suggest this article be moved to Finn McCool. (just see the above three sections!) beano 15:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation of name

I have added the pronunciation of the name by native Irish speakers using IPA symbols. Unfortunately, the symbol used to indicate palatalisation of consonants doesn't seem to be included in the fonts below. I suspect, though, that this a convention used solely by Irish linguists to indicate palatalisation v. velarisation. It would also be helpful if the pronunciation by Scottish Gaelic and Manx speakers could be included where those differ from the Irish. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 13:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I changed the pronunciation to the proper IPA symbols for Standard Irish based on the information on the Irish orthography page and added English. Unfortunately, I am not sure how to apply them to the other dialects.--Csladic 19:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Fact versus fiction

I think we need to be clearer in differentiating fact from fiction. I came to this article hoping to learn about the historic Finn McCool and after a brief look at this article I'm having a hard time telling whether he actually was a real person at all. --Doradus 12:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

He wasn't. Fionn is entirely a character from legend. --Nicknack009 18:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Cremaster 3

Is there some reason the reference to Cremaster 3 has been deleted twice? It was removed once about a year ago, and again on Jan. 24. I've added the reference back, but am not interested in quibbling over reverts. It's an easily verified reference, and Fionn mac Cumhaill makes a lengthy appearance in the film. It seems like something that should obviously be included here, so I'm baffled by the deletions. Anyone care to enlighten me? Eric.d.dixon 08:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

What Kind of Salmon ?

The only kind of Salmon found in Ireland is the Atlantic Salmon, Salmo Salar. And as a fisherman and a McCool I've always been puzzled by the description of Finn's fish as a Salmon - because Salmon are a migratory species which only travel into freshwater to spawn [and die]. It would be much more likely that Finn would have caught a related species - the Brown Trout, Salmo Trutta. Large Brown Trout can often be long term residents of river pools, and top predators. As they grow larger and climb the food pyramid, they do indeed, in literal sense, ingest all the knowledge that swims down the river. And they're also very wary and very difficult to catch... That fish that Finn caught was a large, fat, Brown Trout.-- Jimmccool 15:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Folklore?

The story about the Giant's Causeway on the page and the one about him living in Mann are not the stories. The real story is that he was living in Ulster when a giant in Scotland challenged him to a fight. Fionn was scared but his wife Oonagh had a plan. The Scottish Giant built the Causeway over to get to Ireland. When he arrived, Oonagh told him Fionn was out, but he should come into the house and wait. She asked him would he turn the house around to face the Sun as Fionn was not there and he normally did it. The Giant did it with great stress wondering how Fionn could do it easier. When he was finished, Oonagh brought him in and offered him some bread and gave some to her ,,baby", who was Fionn in disguise. But the Giant's bread had some iron in it and he broke his teeth eating it, while the baby ate it with no hassle. He asked Oonagh how the baby managed to eat it so easily. Oonagh replied that it was because of his strong teeth and offered the Giant to put his finger, the source of his power, in to feel about. When the Giant put the finger in, Fionn bit it off and the Giant drained of power. He ran back to Scotland thinking that ,,if that's the baby, what's Fionn like?". As he ran across the Causeway, he ripped it up, in fear that Fionn, or the baby, might come over. But that is not the story on the page. Zu Anto 21:15, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was do not move. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:28, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

• Why is this article under the Gaelic name? Surely under WP:COMMONNAME, it should be Finn McCool? This is the English version of the name, it is the most common form of the name used in English, and this is an English-language encyclopaedia. Mooretwin (talk) 10:13, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
• In support of this: a Google search for "Finn McCool" throws up 120,000 results: a Google search for "Fionn mac Cumhaill" throws up only 19,900. Mooretwin (talk) 10:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
• I would oppose any such move. Your google searches are accurate in terms of raw numbers, but look at the search results. Search for "Fionn mac Cumhaill" and you get references to the legendary hero who is the subject of this article. Search for "Finn McCool" and you mainly get pubs and tourist attractions. "Fionn mac Cumhaill" is the correct name, and also the most commonly used when referring to the hero. --Nicknack009 (talk) 11:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose, for much the same reason. I would have preferred Finn mac Cumaill myself, which is a little more common in discussions of the Old and Middle Irish material, but the Modern Irish version is by no means a bad alternative. Cavila (talk) 22:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  • If it matters, the English "Finn McCool" is not normally used in English-language contexts in the Republic of Ireland. It's usually Fionn mac Cumhaill. — AjaxSmack 03:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Etymology

>>That a widespread cult of Finn existed among European celts is reflected in continental place names derived from Finn or Vindos, such as Vienna, Windisch/Vindonissa, Vendresse and others.<<

This claim is a step too far! Place names can perfectly well incorporate the same Proto-Celtic element windos ( = "white, fair, bright" etc.) as appears in the name of Fionn mac Cumhaill without at all implying "a widespread cult of [the god] Finn". I have therefore removed from the article the statement quoted above. -- Picapica (talk) 17:59, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Ice hockey

Should we mention Finn is also the official mascot of the Belfast giants? - clae