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Birds feathers or downward pointing pieces of cloth

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The introduction says that the style is owing to the use of downward pointing pieces of cloth. The "Context" section says that actors wore feathers. Did the actors ware real feathers or did they ware downward pointing pieces of cloth? Snowman (talk) 14:44, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that point (different WP eds, different sources) is rather fudged. The actors are certainly are said by RS to have used cloth/leather on the bodies, and also at least peacock feathers for wings. Given how few clear & detailed contemporary sources there are, they may well have used either/both all over the body & wings at different times & places, but I think myself the body-suit artworks suggest that cloth or leather representations rather than actual feathers are the more important here, but I haven't seen an RS that addresses the issue squarely. Not sure how it can be resolved without new sources, who are pretty much bound to be speculating themselves. Johnbod (talk) 14:57, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In the absence of clearer sources, I think that the article should reflect that uncertainty. I have become unsure if the category "Featherwork" is relevant here or not. Snowman (talk) 15:27, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've clarified as far as I think present sources allow. There are certainly some real feathers involved, namely peacocks', which were recorded because they were expensive. I expect cheaper feathers were also used. Johnbod (talk) 16:42, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As bit of OR, it's as easy or easier to attach real feathers to a cloth base than to make material feathers, so I suspect that both were used. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:06, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
... but cloth is probably more readily availably than large numbers of feathers, and I expect that pieces of cloth are a lot easier to assemble into a garment. Snowman (talk) 18:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In the Middle Ages in Norfolk, I suspect that chicken and goose feathers were pretty abundant, probably every household. They walked flocks of geese to London for sale. My wife, whose dressmaking skills are infinitely superior to mine, says that it's much easier to put a couple of stitches to hold a goose feather in place than to create the overlap effect with individual pieces of cloth (all OR, but quite interesting) Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, but the majority of the depictions in art look rather more like lappets than real feathers, for what that's worth. Of course they needed the goose quills for writing too! Lappets might also store better. Johnbod (talk) 20:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Peacock feathers may be a red herring, because the article says these were used for the wings and not for the garment. 19:20, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I might be wrong, but I though that in the Middle Ages, not many people could write, so not many quills would be needed. Snowman (talk) 21:28, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
a quill doesn't last long, so if you're copying out the Bible, you get through a fair number. By the 15th century (the Early Renaissance in Italy) literacy was notably on the increase. Also they used them for the "flights" on arrows, & they certainly got through plenty of those in England. Johnbod (talk) 02:58, 29 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thinking about this further, & after seeing a very feathery one from York Minster's East window on tv, it seems the (ahem) more sophisticated continental examples look like they are imitating lappets on tight body-suits, whereas the more variable English examples tend to a much baggier fit, and more variable feather forms, which might often be imitating real feathers sewn on suits. I wish we had a pic of the York one. No refs of course. Johnbod (talk) 13:53, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Church in Warwick

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Re: Collegiate Church of St Mary, Warwick. Is this the St Mary's mentioned in the article? Snowman (talk) 19:23, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, thanks - added. Johnbod (talk) 20:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Captain America

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This article needs to discuss Captain America if it hopes to achieve GA status.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why? And it doesn't. Johnbod (talk) 18:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Captain America wears scale mail. Birds, which do have feathers, evolved from lizards, which do have scales; the feathers are adapted scales.
Therefore, Captain America wears feather tights. QED.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:21, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok; they look pretty smooth in the pics. Johnbod (talk) 23:22, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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