Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2016/Archive 7

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Romania were expelled from ESC 2016 due to their failure to pay EBU debts... --180.183.54.11 (talk) 09:10, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=tvr_romania_no_longer_entitled_to_take_part_in_eurovision_2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.183.54.11 (talk) 09:11, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Already done: A section has been added to the article on this issue. CT Cooper · talk 10:53, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Romania, Disqualified/Withdrew

Okay this needs to be discussed now as two users seem to just be changing this whenever it is reverted back. Should Romania be listed as a "Disqualified country" or a "Withdrawn country". In my opinion, it should obviously be disqualified. No one in Romania voluntarily said "hey, we can't participate in Eurovision this year, so let's just take a break from it this year". That would be withdrawing. What actually happened was they were forcibly removed by the EBU, clearly a disqualification rather than a withdrawal, but these two users seem not to accept this and are just constantly reverting when anyone adds Romania to disqualified for reasons they've never explained. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 11:35, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

The way I see it, Romania withdrew, not by their own choice but forcefully. Take for example 2009 when Georgia selected a song and an artist but were forced to withdraw because there was a disagreement with the EBU (in this case, political referencing in the song). Romania had a song and an artist selected, but it was a forced withdrawal, not a disqualification. Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 12:38, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, what happened with Georgia 2009 was that the EBU said they must either remove the political references in their lyrics or select a new song, to which Georgia responded with simply withdrawing. They weren't forced to withdraw, but they preferred to withdraw rather than change their song. A bit different in my opinion. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 13:08, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

This is very simple to be honest. The published source from the EBU states that they [EBU] withdrew Romania from the contest. A disqualification has a different meaning, and neither the song nor the artist have been disqualified. It is the national broadcaster that has been expelled, and as a consequence, the country is no longer eligible to participate - thus they have withdrawn. Wes Mouse ✒ 14:30, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

To put the two words into context: for an entry to be disqualified it would have had to been in breach of one of the Eurovision rules. The song nor the artist have breached any of the rules. What has happened is the broadcaster, TVR, have failed to make payments to the EBU and as a result have had their membership in the EBU revoked. The contest rules state that a country to be eligible to participate must be a member of the EBU; and TVR is no longer a member. Thus the EBU have made the decision to withdraw the Romanian entry due to the fact they are no legible to participate. Disqualification? No. Withdrawn? Yes. Wes Mouse ✒ 14:38, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

For once I actually agree with Wes Mouse ✒. Romania weren't disqualified because in the case of Georgia 2009, the song broke the rules of the contest and warranted disqualification, none of which applies to the original Romanian entry. The reason for their withdrawal is that TVR have been removed from the EBU because of repeated non-payment of fees. Since they are no longer a member, they have withdrawn. And just so we don't have this edit war again, can we put a note in the article source saying that Romania have withdrawn, not been disqualified and if they have any questions, they can add to this discussion. Bearnard O'Riain. (talk) 14:57, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm okay with either term though I'll make a case for using "disqualified" since I think it's equally acceptable. The Eurovision.tv article states that they wont be able to broadcast the contest, which contravenes the rules of the contest. The term "withdrawn" was used to refer to the withdrawal of EBU member services, one of which was the signal to broadcast the contest. The inability to broadcast the contest made the Romanian entry ineligible to compete. Pickette (talk) 16:07, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

The correct term is disqualified for obvious reasons, even if it's the first time of this type of event in all Eurovision history, in fact that tern is also available in the template...see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_song_contest. Romania was forced not to participate, so had no choice, and that means is not a simply withdraw. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 10:23, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

@Eugen Simion 14: clearly a strong case of agree to disagree here, and something that may require dispute resolution. Word definition should be taken into account though. To be disqualified would mean the entry and/or artist have breached one of the contest rules. As neither have, then disqualified would be hugely incorrect of a term to use. It is already known and verified that the EBU have revoked the active membership along with any services that come as part of the EBU Membership package, from the Romanian broadcaster TVR. As a result Romania no longer have any rights to participate in the contest, so they have withdrawn through no fault of their own, but by force of the EBU membership rules. That does not quantify as being disqualified at all. Therefore a withdrawal through force of the EBU's rules would only be the correct term to use. Although it may be better to expand the prose on this topic so that we are able to provide a neutral and better worded insight to steer away from confusion between the definitions of the words "to be disqualified" and "to be forcefully withdrawn". I also would like to point out that the {{Infobox song contest}} never had the disqualified parameter included before, and was added by an editor without proposing to add the feature at Talk Project Eurovision, something which should have been done. Wes Mouse ✒ 11:06, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Incidents, Australian entry and product placement

I'm wondering why this hasn't been included see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35967540 http://www.sbs.com.au/programs/eurovision/article/2016/04/06/eurovision-confirms-australias-song-lyrics-do-not-breach-contest-rules Lacunae (talk) 19:30, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Lacunae: feel free to be bold and add the piece to the incidents section. Wes Mouse ✒ 20:32, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2016

I would like to add that the contest in Grecce will be broadcasted by ERT1 and ERT HD according with the programm of the channels. http://program.ert.gr/search.asp 37.6.241.55 (talk) 11:20, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

That information is already included on the article, and has been since March 2016. Wes Mouse ✒ 20:30, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

It was just a reference to ERT. No on the channels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.6.241.229 (talk) 11:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

UK Commentary team

Sarah Dawn Finer has confirmed that she will be on the Semi-Final team with Scott and Mel. https://www.instagram.com/p/BE9IMnBBth5/ 86.25.135.140 (talk) 13:49, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

We need a more viable source to use before the information can be added. This is partially due to WP:TWITTER being a self-published and questionable source. Wes Mouse ✒ 16:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

She is being interviewed as 'Linda Woodruff' by the BBC team during the semi final. She is not a commentator for the UK.

78.64.7.213 (talk) 20:34, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Commentators - Finland

Could someone check the commentators listed for Finland? The Swedish-language part says that it's broadcast on Yle TV2, but so is the Finnish, the source only says Yle Radio Vega, but the Swedish language is usually on Yle Fem? -- AxG / ✉ / 10 years of editing 16:22, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

If you expand the broadcast details in the source, it states that the broadcast will have three audio tracks: Finnish, English and Swedish. The Finnish track will have the Finnish commentary, the Swedish track will have the Swedish commentary and I'm assuming the English track means no commentary and you just listen to the hosts of the show talk. There is no broadcast scheduled on Yle Fem and I don't there has been for years now. Pickette (talk) 16:55, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Of course audio tracks! Although I was looking at source 130, and didn't look at he others before it, which confused me. -- AxG / ✉ / 10 years of editing 18:13, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Language of "Falling Stars"

In the second rehearsal Lidia sang a verse of her song in French, should we add French in the languages? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdamantiosK (talk • contribs) 08:56, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Voting order & full spokespersons

Since the page is locked, pe-rhaps one of the page owners with privileged access can add the running order for the jury spokespersons for the grand final on May 14:

1. Austria - Kati Bellowitsch
2. Iceland - Unnestein Manuel Stefansson
3. Azerbaijan - Tural Asadov
4. San Marino - Irol MC
5. Czech Republic - Daniela Pisarovicova
6. Ireland - Sinead Kennedy
7. Georgia - Nina Sublatti
8. Bosnia-Herzegovina - Ivana Crnogorac
9. Malta - Ben Camille
10. Spain - Jota Abril
11. Finland - Jussi-Pekka Rantanen
12. Switzerland - Sebalter
13. Denmark - Ulla Essendrop
14. France - Elodie Gossuin
15. Moldova - Olivia Furtuna
16. Armenia - Arman Margaryan
17. Cyprus - Lukas Hamatsos
18. Bulgaria - Anna Angelova
19. Netherlands - Trijntje Oosterhuis
20. Latvia - Toms Grevins
21. Israel - TBA
22. Belarus - Uzari
23. Germany - Barbara Schoneberger
24. Russia - Nyusha
25. Norway - Elisabeth Andreassen
26. Australia - Lee Lin Chin
27. Belgium - Umesh Vangaver
28. United Kingdom - Richard Osman
29. Croatia - Nevena Rendeli
30. Greece - Constantinos Christophorou
31. Lithuania - Ugne Galadauskaite
32. Serba - Dragana Kosjerina
33. FYR Macedonia - Dijana Gogova
34. Albania - Andri Xhahu
35. Estonia - Daniel Viinalass
36. Ukraine - Verka Serduchka
37. Italy - Claudia Andreatti
38. Poland - Anna Popek
39. Slovenia - Marjetka Vovk
40. Hungary - Csilla Tatar
41. Montenegro - Danijel Alibabic
42. Sweden - Gina Dirawi
43. USA - Marina Menounouss

78.64.7.213 (talk) 06:55, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

That running order isn't even sourced. So there is no chance of it being added into the article, not without reliable sources to verify the content. Nice try though! Wes Mouse ✒ 06:09, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

I will be back here to look for an apology. You may own this page and you may think you are the world's greatest Eurovision expert, but even you can be wrong. Nice try though. Please post your apology here when you have the running order confirmed. Thank you. 78.75.230.39 (talk) 10:46, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

If you're not here to contribute constructively, move along. Pickette (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

I have constructively posted the CORRECT running order for the voting on May 14. You and WesMouse are simply upset because the EBU didn't inform you directly. When my post is verified, you can also apologize for your nasty comment and then you can move on. 78.75.230.39 (talk) 14:50, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

We can't add it without a reliable source, that's the only reason why we can't add it. So WP:CHILL. -- AxG / ✉ / 10 years of editing 15:01, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

"We" shall see. The owners of this page will see who's constructive. Then they can apologize. Won't "we"? 78.75.230.39 (talk) 15:10, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

"We" don't own pages. -- AxG / ✉ / 10 years of editing 15:17, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Then stop using "we" and unlock pages and allow anyone to edit. If you don't like something or it is wrong, you can always remove it or request a citation. That's what wikipedia is about. "We" don't appreciate that certain pages are prohibited to the privileged few. "We" also don't appreciate the tone used by certain aggressive users. Good manners cost nothing. "We" should know that.78.75.230.39 (talk) 15:51, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Editors wishing to make changes to the article can request on the respected article's talkpage (which you did here), or can request the page to be unprotected here. Further more editors here have already requested that you provide a citation which you haven't done as of yet. Also by making an account and becoming autoconfirmed and confirmed editors can edit semi-protected pages. -- AxG / ✉ / 10 years of editing 16:55, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Oh Look! My first and later additional edit was constructive. Move along Pickette. Nice try though WesMouse.78.75.230.200 (talk) 16:12, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Nobody owns anything. And I never claimed to be an "expert". All I said was we need sources to verify any content that is to be added. That is the core rules on Wikipedia. Otherwise the information you wrote above i just original research which is prohibited. Wes Mouse ✒ 15:18, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

"We" beg to differ. Nice try though.78.75.230.39 (talk) 15:48, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

The full voting order was posted here on May 7 2016 at 6:55. To the fury of page owner WesMouse and Pickette who posted sneering, abusive remarks. The same user then added the full spokespersons on May 13. Both additions were wholly accurate (leaving aside the tongue in cheek entry about the USA). When WesMouse realized both edits were wholly accurate, they attempted to remove the edits to avoid having to apologize and save their embarrassment at being shown as not the source of all Eurovision knowledge. They have no right to do this. Everytime they attempt to hide and remove the data, it will be reinstated. Wiki users have a right to see that editors who bully and exert their authority by locking pages and allowing only themselves and their friends to edit are quite often fallable and in many cases, wholly wrong.78.75.230.200 (talk) 16:09, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Actually dear IP user, what you done was wrong. You do not have the rights to refactor comments made by another IP user. That is against the rules of WP:REFACTOR. Even making slight adjustments or correcting spelling is deemed to be refactoring and can lead to blocking sanctions if continued. If you wish to make changes, then post the comments yourself, do not alter or change comments made by others. And stop attacking both myself and Pickette. Your actions are inappropriate and may lead to your IP address being blocked by an administrator. Wes Mouse ✒ 16:19, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

I have refactored nothing you petty, spiteful 'dear user'. I added the spokespersons on May 13. 24 hours before you added them to the main page. They are staying here for historical record. Nice try though. If you have nothing constructive to add here, move along.78.75.230.200 (talk) 16:23, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Why don't you just go to WP:ANI and report yourself for being rude and attacking people. Wes Mouse ✒ 16:26, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for refactoring that advice and posting a threat. Your advice is most welcome dear user and has been acted on. I'm glad I was able to post the correct running order of the voting on May 7 and the correct list of spokespersons on May 13. I am always happy to make such constructive contributions to wikipedia. I would have gladly posted them to the article, but alas, it is limited to a select group of users. Nice try though. Move along now.78.75.230.200 (talk) 16:30, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

To be fair, IP, it was you who deleted my comments in this edit. That is known as refactoring and you can be blocked for doing that. Informing you of the rules is not classified as a threat, nor is issuing you with a warning. It is procedure, something which you may like to familiarise yourself with and stop attacking users and accusing them of bullying you. Nobody has bullied you and that is clear to see that everyone, including myself and Pickette, have been cooperative towards yourself. If you wish to take matters further then feel free to seek admin help from WP:ANI. But they will see that no bullying has happened here, apart from you being rude and bullying others. Wes Mouse ✒ 16:35, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

We beg to differ. Thank you for your constructive, yet hostile remarks. Nice try though. Move along now.78.75.230.200 (talk) 16:44, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

So where is the apology? Telling people to shove off is rude. I see that instead of continuing to be a "rule nazi" you went found the obvious citation, but not bothered to apologize: DIF. I see this all too often on Wikipedia, editors choosing to bully people instead of checking themselves for the reference they are asking for. Yes, telling people to shove off is rude, and rude is bullying; It's despicable, and shameful. This post is for the IP user that was bullied, I personally don't need a response. 206.45.207.80 (talk) 22:11, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

@206.45.207.80: actually, an administrator investigated the allegations, and found that the IP was not bullied whatsoever, and they were blocked for their rudeness and for altering other's comments. And for the record, you may wish to double-check the IP addresses. The original post was made by a different IP user (78.64.7.213), than the one who was blocked for being rude (78.75.230.200). Wes Mouse ✒ 23:29, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

@206.45.207.80: There will be no apology. We can't add information without a reliable source, which that user failed to provide. Simple as that. Pickette (talk) 02:49, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2016

According with ERT (http://www.ert.gr/eurovision-2016-i-imiteliki-ke-o-telikos-stin-ert/ ) ERT1, ERT HD, Second programme and the Voice of Greece will broadcast the contest. Also Constantinos Christoforou will announce the votes. Correct and add them 37.6.241.255 (talk) 11:32, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

• As previously noted, the commentators and broadcasting channels for Greece are already included in the article, with citations for verification. Wes Mouse ✒ 12:25, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2016

Please change the Belgian "Voting and Spokesperson" from TBA to Umesh Vangaver Source : http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/cultuur%2Ben%2Bmedia/muziek/2.41904?eid=1.2652893 (Dutch, currently can't find an English source) (Because he's going to present the points for Belgium, he's going to win a bet against another Belgian tv-personality (Tom Waes) for having the highest viewers watching him at a certain moment, but this is probably unrelevant) Kef274 (talk) 09:50, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

• Information added along with source. Thank you. Note to editors: once an English language source is found, please update the citation. Wes Mouse ✒ 12:31, 12 May 2016 (UTC)