Talk:Enguerrand VI de Coucy

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Enguerrand VI, Lord of Coucy → Enguerrand VI — Enguerrand VI currently is not occupied. There are no other Enguerrands from other countries. Thereby, this requested move also applies to Enguerrand I, Lord of Coucy, Enguerrand III, Lord of Coucy, and Enguerrand VII, Lord of Coucy. Thanks. Lawlar (talk) 06:40, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The "Foo I of Foo" formula should be reserved for rulers, not lords. I can't see that Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility) actually says this (it may), but I think that is its drift. I doubt that sources can be found that introduce Lords of Coucy using this formula. Johnbod (talk) 12:08, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose WP:NCROY doesn't actually discuss the French nobility; thank you for pointing this out (it was formerly phrased about all nobility and then used British phrasing). But practice is clear: use Christian name, surname when applicable, mark of sequence to disambiguate, and title. To omit the title would imply that the Lords of Coucy were sovereign, which not even they quite claimed; even more seriously, of course Enguerrand is ambiguous, like all of the Western European namestock: there are other Enguerrands from the North of France - to say nothing of Glasgow. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Septentrionalis' rationale. Rulers were relatively few (and those with ordinals fewer still), therefore disambiguation has less need to be pre-emptive, whereas nobles in varying times, countries & families of the same first name are exceedingly common (and more seem to be assigned ordinals now in English). As their notability is established, justifying new articles, we already know they are more likely than not to need disambiguation FactStraight (talk) 17:45, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.