Talk:Education of immigrants in the United States

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2017

This is a very good and interesting article. The graphics are very helpful in illustrating your point and adding good data to the article. The "Overview" section is well put together and the table does a good job of showing how education is broken down in the United States. However, I think that some of the topics could be expanded on more, such as the "Origin" or "Generation" sections. Specifically the "Origin" section, you could put the breakdown that the pie chart explains, instead of saying "The pie chart to the right shows the numbers". overall, the article is a knowledgeable and good article. (Izeigler (talk) 19:25, 10 November 2017 (UTC))

Requested move 14 November 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Education of immigrants in the United States. There seems to be consensus that the page name should be changed, and this name was both proposed by multiple participants, and also suggested to be a plausible title for the scope and/or developing scope of the article. So, the consensus for this is rough, but seems to be beneficial. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 14:34, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

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Immigration to the United States (education) → ? – Clearly not an MOS-compliant name for this article, but I'm not sure what the article should be titled. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:39, 14 November 2018 (UTC)--Relisted. –Ammarpad (talk) 04:40, 22 November 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. B dash (talk) 11:52, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

• It was at (Education) with cap E, which clearly isn't right, so fixed that as non-controversial, but what else is wrong with it? In ictu oculi (talk) 08:41, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
• Education of immigrants to the United States? Education of immigrants in the United States? Dekimasuよ! 19:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
  • These are good titles for an article, but I don't think it's this one at present. This is about education levels or outcomes, not about educating immigrants. I would expect the titles you suggest to include information about adult English as a second language, schools and universities that teach in the immigrant's native language, relative effects of education on different classes and origins of immigrants etc. Is this one best to merge into the parent article and start again? --Scott Davis ^Talk 07:19, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
    • The article seems very confused and unfocused, probably as a result of the ambiguous title. Giving the article a title like Education of immigrants in the United States would probably help focus its development. Rreagan007 (talk) 07:33, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Confusing

As a reader of this article from outside of the United States, I find it confusing. I attempted to clarify it from the references, but gave up after the first section. I note that the creator of the article has a total of three edits, all to this article. The sources of my confusion include:

• Is it about the education levels of migrants at the time of immigration, or about the process of (continuing) education in the US of people who have previously immigrated?
• Sources appear to either be not online, or referenced to large websites, not individual pages (especially reference 1 used 13 times).
• Comparisons between immigrant and native-born populations are drawn solely on age, without reference to whether a migrant had arrived in the last year, or been a US resident/citizen since infancy. Nor does it identify differences by country of origin nor reason to migrate (refugee, family reunion, higher education, specialist skilled work etc).
• It is unclear whether the article is about all non-native-born people in the United States (including temporary visa holders, refugees and illegal/undocumented immigrants (who crossed the national border with the knowledge of the government), permanent residents only, or naturalised citizens only.
• I can't work out what the first table ("Source") is supposed to tell me. Each column adds to about 100%. Does it mean that 6.4% of native-born Americans have an education level no higher than preschool? The numbers in the table do not appear to support or be supported by the surrounding prose.
• The Economic inequality section seems to be looking at racial differences irrespective of immigration status.
• The charts come from Wikipedia Commons, but are uncited "own work" by the same author as this article.

I wonder if there is enough meaningful content to keep this as a standalone article, or should it be severely trimmed, and merged into Immigration to the United States#Education_2 --Scott Davis ^Talk 06:57, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much Scott. Here are my responses to your observations:

·       Is it about the education levels of migrants at the time of immigration, or about the process of (continuing) education in the US of people who have previously immigrated

• I agree with this criticism. I think that the two situations need to be clearly differentiated or the similarity in the experiences underlined to avoid confusion.

·       Sources appear to either be not online, or referenced to large websites, not individual pages (especially reference 1 used 13 times).

• The sources need to be diversified.

·       Comparisons between immigrant and native-born populations are drawn solely on age, without reference to whether a migrant had arrived in the last year, or been a US resident/citizen since infancy. Nor does it identify differences by country of origin nor reason to migrate (refugee, family reunion, higher education, specialist skilled work etc).

• There needs to be a section on the differences in migratory experiences, especially of refugee and immigrant. I also propose changing the title to “Refugee and immigrant education in the United States”

·       It is unclear whether the article is about all non-native-born people in the United States (including temporary visa holders, refugees and illegal/undocumented immigrants (who crossed the national border with the knowledge of the government), permanent residents only, or naturalised citizens only.

• This I think ought to be made clear in the lead.

·       I can't work out what the first table ("Source") is supposed to tell me. Each column adds to about 100%. Does it mean that 6.4% of native-born Americans have an education level no higher than preschool? The numbers in the table do not appear to support or be supported by the surrounding prose.

• It seems that the numbers are in reference to school attendance percentage among native-born and foreign-born persons. It looks to be supported by the sentence that precedes it, but doesn’t seem to be necessary.

·       The Economic inequality section seems to be looking at racial differences irrespective of immigration status.

• Agreed. I propose that if the data on economic inequality be kept, that stats on the refugee and immigrant economic situation(s) be included as well, to highlight the differences and the similarities between them.

·       The charts come from Wikipedia Commons, but are uncited "own work" by the same author as this article.

• Should they be removed then?

As per your last comment about whether this article should be seriously shortened and merged into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Education_2, I think there is enough potential and research done on this subject to warrant a standalone page. It needs a fair amount of work though, some trimming and cleaning up, and a better organizational scheme, before it does the subject justice.

Here is a list of my own observations and proposed changes to the article.

Existing page organization

1. overview
2. education in the United States
3. Immigration
   1. Unaccompanied asylum-seeking children
4. Critical consciousness and immigrant students
5. gender
6. employment/income
7. economic inequality within United States' immigration
8. immigrant integration
9. origin
10. generation
11. comparison to native population
12. references

My proposed changes to the organization

change title to: Immigrant and refugee education in the United States

suggest deletions of certain sections (not sure yet which one, but I don't feel as though all are very useful in the article. Bolded are the sections from the previous organization that I have moved and included into the proposed new organizational scheme.

1. lead
   1. overview of what will be covered and brief explanation of immigrant vs. refugee
2. education in the United States
   1. history of discriminatory policy and prejudices that lead to the problems being faced by refugees and immigrants to the US.
   2. challenges that are currently faced
      1. Unaccompanied asylum-seeking children
   3. what is being done and not being done to meet those challenges
   4. explain how much of the focus has been mostly limited to high school
      1. because a pivotal and important way to meet the language and social need of new arrivals
3. what are the difficulties faced by students in the classroom
   1. gender
4. difficulties faced by immigrant and refugee communities and how these bleed into student difficulties
   1. economic inequality within United States' immigration
   2. employment/income
   3. immigrant integration
5. what are the challenges faced by teachers
6. what are the recommendations for immigrant education
   1. Critical consciousness and immigrant students
7. examples of how these have been implemented in models such as the Internationals Network

I think that the sections "comparison to native population", "generation", "origin" and the title "immigration, are not needed and should be removed.

Genderx (talk) 20:09, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

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