Talk:Dragonstomper/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 19:24, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

There are a lot of copy issues, ranging from grammar to a frankly undue quote of a facetious magazine article. You also have one minor image fix. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Copy changes

Lead

• The player makes his way over the countryside Do we really need to assume the gender of the player character?

Correct. Changed. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• The device also increased the RAM capabilities of the Atari 2600 exponentially allowing for more complex games or graphics for the system. Comma after "exponentially" to aid reading

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• games depth should be "game's"

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• Games listing it among the best games of 1983. Should be "listed"

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• Retrospective reviews included Chris Cavanaugh writing for the online database AllGame calling the game "woefully overlooked" and Ed Lin writing in Forbes in 2005 that Dragonstomper was "the best title made in the history of U.S. video gaming".
  • Commas around the bolded passage here.

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• • That second quote from Lin is a gigantic and undue claim. The source is facetious in tone in context. The best title ever made in the history of U.S. videogaming was DragonStomper. It will never be surpassed because games are no longer comprised of the labor and love of one person. Games no longer have the consistent vision of a single artist/programmer, nor the dignity to end with a finality to close off all sequels. Hats off to DragonStomper creator Stephen Landrum! It could maybe be presented in the retrospective section with a note on the tone and context surrounding it.

Fair. When reading about what little is written about the game, others have hopped to this quote as well, so perhaps i'll try to pluck more base stuff here. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Plot and gameplay

Consider reorganizing some of the paragraphs here that really seem to dart around topically.

• sword and sorcery themed Try sword and sorcery–themed (note that is an endash, not a hyphen)

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• "Newfound" is one word

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• causing crops to die and created savage creatures "creating", not "created", for consistency

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• and like most games of the genre the early 1980s Add "in" after "genre"

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• Michael J. Tresca wrote in their book probably "his"

Sure. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• The game is set three different in-game areas. The first being The Enchanted Countryside, The Oppressed Village, and The Dragon's Cave. Should be The game is set three different in-game areas: The Enchanted Countryside, The Oppressed Village, and The Dragon's Cave.

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• In the countryside, the objective is to gain power and magic needed to enter the village with the Dragonstomper battling enemies in the field to be able to have enough gold to pass the guard at the bridge. Add a comma after "entering the village"

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• The ending features different ways chosen by the player to deal with the dragon. Maybe reword this to provide some more of the specifics from Harris?

I'm okay with doing this, but i'm concerned about WP:VGORDER where it could come across as a bit "walkthrough-y". I'm new to trying harder at video game articles, so i'll try to do that after I hear back from you.Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• Each battle in the game can lower your hit points which the game refers to as strength, when it runs out, the game is over. Try Each battle in the game can lower the player's strength; when this reaches zero, the game is over. Removes an awkward "your" and solves a comma splice issue. User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences (CinS)

Not sure on this, as the Harris article I believe notes, "Strength" is usually a different thing in most role-playing games than Hit points. I feel like saying "strength" here than linking to hit points doesn't give that full context to the reader. Thoughts? Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• Once within the village, the user can buy items and recruit other warriors to assist you for the final battle when before entering the dragon's cave. "you" should be "them". Remove other "you" references in this area.

I've tried to re-phrase this. Thoughts? Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Development

• Dragonstomper was created by Stephen Landrum for a company called Arcadia. It should be mentioned that Arcadia renamed itself Starpath; when? "a company called" is unnecessary.

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• It was developed in Santa Clara, California by missing an MOS:GEOCOMMA

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• Superchrager typo

Fixed. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• Landrum worked for the company from March 1981 to November 1983, creating games like Communist Mutants From Space, a port of Frogger and would complete the code for Suicide Mission for Arcadia and Starpath Try Landrum worked for Arcadia/Starpath from March 1981 to November 1983, creating games like Communist Mutants From Space and a port of Frogger as well as completing the code for Suicide Mission

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• role-playing game as he felt nobody has made a "real" fantasy role-playing game on the Atari 2600. try role-playing game, as he felt nobody had yet made a "real" fantasy role-playing game on the Atari 2600.

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• By 1982, the Atari 2600 use of music was primarily functional in nature, and was mostly for intros to games and in-game events. Remove the second comma (CinS)

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Release

• According to Michael Blanchet in a November 26, 1982 newspaper article, the game was released. there has to be a better way to phrase this, notwithstanding the MOS:DATECOMMA needed here. I'd consider The game had been released by November 1982, when it and the Supercharger were reviewed by syndicated columnist Michael Blanchet., but this is a strange one because there is genuine conflict among the sources.

I'll try re-phrasing it, but as stated, there is conflicting information in the games release date from newspaper publications. From my experience with this, it possibly could have been a small tested marketed area, but it could also be it was just sent to publications to discuss in papers.

• • There is a November 18, 1982, newspaper ad for "Dragon Stomper" (two words) at a computer store in Texas, and I see it mentioned in ads in December in Edmonton and Baltimore.

I see those as well, but this becomes an issue with these old games. Look at articles on games like Superman to see the confusion. I like to quote Big Apple Rappin' article in these situations " "histories of specific firsts: First MC, first scratcher on record, first live jam, first indoor jam, and naturally the first hip hop record? Small record companies run by independent entrepreneurs hustling to make a buck, don't keep detailed documentation on the records they release." I'm leaning towards that its probably better to maybe re-phrase this to say "There is conflicting documents on the specific year the game was released", we can mention the first article, the newspapers ad, and then the magazine stating it wasn't released. I was hoping to find some old reviews talking about the game in '82, but the earliest ones I believe are from magazines published in January of '83. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• May or June of 1983 No need for this "of"

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Reception

• "From contemporary reviews" and "From retrospective reviews" — Consider better introductory sentences.

Tried to re-phrase these to cover the topics more specifically. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:36, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• When quoting passages that do not end in a fully reproduced sentence, always logical quotes MOS:LOGICAL. e.g. but that it "happens to be one of the best adventure games released for the 2600." should be but that it "happens to be one of the best adventure games released for the 2600".
• The first paragraph in the contemporary reviews subsection is a wall of text that could stand a split.
• it's that's an "its"

Looks like this has been covered Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• Comma after the quote "outstanding"

Also looks like this has been covered. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• game's, not games

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• The same review was published in the 1984 version, but lowering the score to a seven Remove comma (CinS)
• Add comma after "and" and before "along"

Believe this has been fixed. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• "noted although" try "noted that, although"

Tried re-phrasing. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• An anonymous author in Computer and Video Games also proclaimed it the best of the current Supercharger games in July 1983, and that the game "should be enough to keep even the most skilled adventurer occupied for a very long time." Remove comma (CinS)

Believe this has been taken care of. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• "players fate" should be "player's"

This has been fixed. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• the magazine Games' list try Games magazine's list

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• Best New Games of 1983, who praised the game Reword to Best New Games of 1983; the publication praised the game

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• "really shows off the Atari 2600 potential" should be 2600's potential with a possessive

This has been fixed. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

• Again, with Lin, exercise caution and couch his claims in the facetious tone of that article...
  • Dragonstomper was "the best title made in the history of U.S. video gaming" Lin praised Period needed after the second quotation mark.
  • Lin praised the game's innovation being the graphics and music cues, and that it contained multiple ways to solve problems Remove comma (CinS)
    • @Andrzejbanas: I have made some of these changes; were you done with copyedits yet? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 22:20, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

  Hi! No sorry i got caught up with a few things today and have this and one other GA on the go. I'll tag you when I think I've gone through everything. Sorry for the confusion. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:05, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Spot checks

Normally, I sample sources randomly. Unfortunately, that is not doable because 26 of 32 refs are offline.

• AllGame: Once victory is achieved, a rousing rendition of "Rule Britannia" will play, causing players to fully comprehend what an epic (and woefully overlooked) title Dragonstomper truly is. It's also labeled as swords and sorcery. This is okay, but I'd recommend another reference here to corroborate this.
• Blanchet: "Now available" game mention. Y
• Harris: A lot of material from here, all checks out. Y
• Hudson: Starpath out of business and acquired by Epyx. Y
• Lin: The quote is reproduced correctly. But the issues in using this are larger. Y
• Montfort: The problem is that these games were originally released on audiotape, which loaded into the Atari 2600 via the Starpath Supercharger adapter. Rather than let these nostalgic bits fade away, Usenet denizens have spent the past two years gathering them for transfer to the more durable audio CD format. (An Atari 2600 and adapter are still required.) Y

I've tried to re-use the more specific details of Lin's review to not go into his near rant on how much he disliked contemporary games in the 2000s :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:42, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Images

The cover art and gameplay screenshot are non-free. Add a non-free use rationale to the cover art image; it currently lacks this, but this should be easy to do. The Supercharger image is PD-self. Encouragement: Add alt text.

Done. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:36, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie:, I appreciate your patience. I've tried to address everything and commented on a few issues above as well. Thanks again for waiting, take all the time you need to respond! Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:47, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

I've taken a look, @Andrzejbanas. I notice you struggle a lot with the use of possessives (games/game's, its/it's), so watch for that in your writing in the future. I've made the remaining copyedits necessary to pass this page. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.