Talk:Louisa Martindale

This article was nominated for deletion on 16 December 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2019 and 3 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sabrinapham4.

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]Untitled]

I should be interested to hear from any descendents of the family of James Spicer Esq (1901-1888) and his wife Louisa (nee Edwards 1813-1892) with a view to locating any family photographs. In particular of his daughter Louisa Spicer (married name Martindale (1839-1914) and her two daughters Dr Louisa Martindale (1872-1966) and Hilda Martindale (1875-1952).

Val Brown (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)Val Brown[reply]

suffragist, 'orientation'

It has come to my understanding that there is a big difference between suffragette and suffragist, and I have changed the wording of the article accordingly. I wish that the critic had pointed that out on this talk page, so it would have been taken care of more quickly. And for the record: I do not fully understand why this article was nominated for deletion so quickly--Dr. Martindale is obviously notable in many ways.

As for Dr. Martindale's 'orientation,' of course that is relevant for a female surgeon in that time period who writes about controversial topics and still receives a CBE. Plenty of reputable sources point this out, and I find it rather remarkable that a modern biographer of Dr. Martindale would choose to leave that out--if her sexual orientation is not relevant, why would the fact that "she never married" have been relevant? (see the first drafts of the article) Why are her dogs relevant, but not her sexual orientation, when she shared her life with another woman for thirty-plus years, according to her own autobiography? By the same token, that her mother, Mrs. Martindale, was a suffragist is verifiably true (read Hilda Martindale, for instance--"a defender of a larger life for women" means just that) and just as relevant.

One can't have it both ways. IF she is notable as a surgeon because she was female, suffering from gender discrimination (as the first draft stated), then her sexual orientation (and I worded that more carefully in the article) is also relevant, esp. since it was hardly a secret, I should think. Drmies (talk) 20:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Orientation

Thank you for your comment and help. Concerning sexual orientation - at this time the feminist debate as to whether women of history can be safely 'outed' as lesbians has not been resolved. My view - as one who can comment upon this with some authority - is No ! Dr Martindale did not use that word to describe herself -even in her 80s when she wrote "A Woman Surgeon" So I will respect her wishes and not do so myself preferring the delicacy of 'long term companion' Most people know how to spell.

I must add that the majority of lesbians I know are in fact cat lovers....

Thanks again

Val Brown (talk) 10:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Ms. Brown, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, and I hope I phrased it delicately enough in the article: I've tried to place the words in the mouths of scholars, so to speak. But I do think (and the American academic community of Victorian scholars agrees, as far as I can ascertain) that there are so many different 'lifestyles' (I hate that word) captured under the euphemism you cite that the phrase is not always useful. Then again, the US is in many ways more prudish, and much can be gained here from some openness. That's what I think, at least, but I'm sure you've also noticed that many of these women now seem to be exhumed and their personal lives delved into. Sometimes that goes too far, but I think on the whole it's a useful project to investigate the past more decisively. Anyway, I'm glad you started the article; you've certainly sparked my interest. EspressoAddict and I have been working on her mother's article; neither of these women will ever be threatened with Deletion from Wikipedia again, I should think. And also, I hope the WP community has't lost you--my library does not have your book, but I'm sure a couple of these hospitals deserve entries too. Your contributions are valued, even if they are sometimes criticized and often "edited mercilessly" (I cite from the screen below). Rest assured, mine are too. (I'm placing a copy of this on your talk page.) Drmies (talk) 16:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion

I see that the sentence of execution has been lifted. Many thanks to the <Keep> editors for their work and support.

Val Brown (talk) 11:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Martindale/Spicer

Hi Espresso Addict and Drmies

I did visit Louisa Martindale (feminist) today to attempt to add the link to Margaret Bondfield.....which to my great relief has already been carried out. I had also wanted to add a link to the Horsted Keynes website - this is a rather nice village in Sussex where Mrs Martindale retired to and died in 1914. You may like to take a look ? It would be good to add it.

[[1]]

In fact I am fact too frightened to alter any of the edits which have gone up on either Martindales.....certainly another good link that I would like to add is to Harriet Harman a leading politician here in UK who has a Wiki page Harriet Harman- whose great grandfather was a James Spicer, brother to Sir Albert Spicer (Bart) and Louisa Martindale the mother - also with Wiki page as we know.

I am happy with the edits made and cannot add anything further that my lack of expertise might jeopardise. But I do propose to return to the fray after Xmas to upload a couple of photos and have a bash - as we say here - at Hilda Martindale.

Your help has been much appreciated. shall invest in a Wikipedia for Dummies book. before doing anything else.

Val Brown (talk) 09:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Ms. Brown, thanks for those links--I have incorporated them, in a short, additional section called "Legacy." Yes, Bondfield was added, and I'm glad you noticed. I think a Hilda-bash would be an excellent idea; I hope you'll extend invitations all around. I'll bake something, if you'll provide the cordials. Happy holidays, Drmies (talk) 16:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cordials

That can be arranged - but it will be with Blackberry wine from the Sussex hills. Happy Xmas and New Year to all.

Val Brown (talk) 20:37, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds delicious. Please make sure there's enough coffee for Espresso Addict; she needs it after cleaning up after me. Happy holidays! Drmies (talk) 05:09, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]