Talk:Tittle

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Needs to be simplified

This article needs to be simplified. There are too many phrases being thrown around, and it wouldn't make sense to a beginner. I think an encyclopedia should be simple enough for anyone to understand. If you can, try to simplify it. Stiles 21:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why not simply enclose the phrases you find confusing within double brackets, to link them to other wikipedia articles (or wiktionary ones if there are no wikipedia articles)? It's perfectly comprehensible for me, so I don't see which phrases need references.
--Doremítzwr 18:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The appropriate and accurate sig-line that i have restored just *above* was removed as part of the seemingly clueless edit that this link points at

Vietnamese

The statement about the i retaining its dot in Vietnamese use to be on the Vietnamese alphabet article but it has been removed a while back [1]. It is citing Dictionarium Annamiticum (1651) as a reference, which quiet frankly is a bit dated, and is wrong, at least partially, see the image with bí and bỉ. I think that statement should be removed or at least corrected. There was a discussion concerning this on http://typophile.com/node/62439 it's rather pertinent. --Moyogo/ (talk) 17:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, Dictionarium Annamiticum covers "Middle Vietnamese", as it is known now, since the language has changed so much since the 17th century. The dictionary always places the tittle on ỉ and ị but never on í or ì. It's consistent throughout the whole text (which I'm in the process of transcribing for Wikisource), so it does seem intentional. I wouldn't go so far as to say that de Rhodes was wrong, seeing as he helped to develop the alphabet. On the other hand, the work is extremely outdated and no stranger to typos, most notably the misspelling of "Annamiticum" on the title page. So I've reworded the sentence slightly to avoid actually recommending keeping the tittle. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:35, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, de Rhodes seems to be consistent (in not being consistent, some might say :-). On Wikisource, shouldn't the lowercase I with dot and hook be i̇̉ (U+0069 U+0307 U+0309) as Unicode recommends it for hard dot? Or is it fine to consider this case a typographic variant of the soft dotted I? --Moyogo/ (talk) 09:31, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Does Unicode recommend it for this particular case? To me, it's no different semantically than ỉ, just a different style. As it happens, I'm also in the process of forking the Junicode font for use in Middle Vietnamese texts. It'll provide the "B with flourish" character (proposed for Unicode), and I was planning to just add a tittle to ỉ, to make things easier for font users. (The font will be embedded as a Web font in Wikisource's copy of the text.) However, if you think it would be better to encode the dotted version separately, I could easily make that change. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:33, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I should also note that this is a common style today in Vietnamese for logos and such: see the logo of the Vietnamese newspaper Báo Gia đình và Xã hội. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:26, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Moyogo, in case you're still interested in this topic, I've added some more examples to the article that attest to the widespread use of tittle + tone mark in Vietnamese. In particular, there's a cursive writing sample that uses it extensively. (I chose a writing sample from the '50s because it's in the public domain, from the U.S. Army's language institute.) But there are plenty of contemporary examples of this style on the Web. For example, in this article from the newspaper Education, open the full-size photos and look for "vì" (3rd photo); "chí bền" (11th); and "Hồ Chí Minh" and "đỉnh Trường Sơn" (last). The tittles are hard to see in the chalkboard photos, but this article is showcasing teachers' and their students' best handwriting, so it's no accident. Some more handwriting samples: [2] ("trí tuệ") [3] ("nặng trĩu", "Chỉ", "lìa cành", "quay tít", "múp míp", "chín") [4] ("tình yêu", "nhìn thấy") [5] ("thì", "nghỉ quân", "Trăm nghìn", "nhìn", "vì sao", "dìu nhau") [6] ("thích"). – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 08:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all those samples Minh Nguyễn. I received a couple of Vietnamese writing school books, they do have the tittle on the i in the roundhand script but not on the printed letters (Arial/Helvetica or Times New Roman). --Moyogo/ (talk) 10:06, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Roadsigns without tittle

Many streetsigns and roadsigns in California (e.g. street names' sign in Los Angeles) are written without tittle. I wonder why. 83.79.67.12 (talk) 20:11, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Baltic languages

The source citing presence of tittle alongside with diacritics is wrong. Latvian has diacritic "I MACRON" (Ī, ī) and the tittle is never preserved, but Lithuanian has no upper diacritic for "i". It has a lower diacritic though (į), which doesn't interfere with the tittle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.245.214.96 (talk) 00:39, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is correct. Lithuanian can be written with stress marks to show accentuation. The lowercase i then keeps its tittle even if it has taken an acute, grave, or tilde. Double sharp (talk) 04:43, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Blacklisted Links Found on Tittle

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Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

http://www.bible-history.com/backd2/jot_tittle.html
Triggered by \bbible\-history\.com\b on the local blacklist

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French

Regarding this statement found on the page:
"Quebec French, which retains diacritic marks on capital letters, sometimes retains the tittle on the capital letter i, including in official documentation and road signs for places such as Longueuil, which may be rendered LONGUEUİL."

While it is true that diacritics are retained on capital letters in French (not only in Québec, as it is a recommendation of both the Académie française and the Office québécois de la langue française), the tittle is never considered a diacritic. I am unable to find a single instance where an uppercase i has a tittle on road signs and elsewhere. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but if it occurs it is probably a rare font design choice without meaning. Stylistic uppercase dotted i is a topic that is probably relevant to the article, but that will require sources and not imply that it has something to do with French. 135.19.207.194 (talk) 15:37, 6 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation to sovereignty

May I ask, why? Seems like a pretty purposeless disambiguation and it also seems weird that an IP user with no other edit history simply added that disambiguation randomly. EthylMethylEther (talk) 17:00, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Removed. Nardog (talk) 05:21, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, to be honest I was afraid to do it myself in case there was a legitimate reason for the disambiguation that I wasn't aware of. EthylMethylEther (talk) 15:53, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by BuySomeApples talk 20:26, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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... that the dot over the letters 'i' and 'j' is called a "tittle"? Source: [7]
- Reviewed:

Created by Harvici (talk). Self-nominated at 14:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Tittle; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Article does not meet Wikipedia:DYKNEW. CMD (talk) 14:41, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]