Talk:Issama Mpeko

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. We have a clear consensus against including "Djo" and rough consensus that the proposed title is the most suitable. Cúchullain ^t/c 23:23, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Djo Issama Mpeko → Issama Mpeko – per WP:COMMONNAME. I really do not understand why this page was moved in the first place because there are reliable sources like National-Football-Teams and transfermarkt that refer to him as Issama Mpeko. – Michael (talk) 21:23, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. – Michael (talk) 21:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~ - Sorry, but National-Football-Teams.com and transfermarkt.de don't particularly look like reliable sources according to WP:RS; is there any evidence that they are? These look like typical bottom-feeder websites to me, and we don't rely on these kind of websites for WP:BLP information, we need to follow printed sources or failing that News Agencies. Agence congolaise de Presse 2010 has "Djo Issama Mpeko" - he plays in Congo, he's notable in Congo, we surely don't need a German website to give him a German name. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:03, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Give him a German name? That does not make any sense, and the fact that he plays in Congo and is notable in Congo is way off topic with this whole situation here. What about sites like MTN Football, Goal.com, UK Eurosport, Football Database, Football ZZ? Besides I was looking at transfermarkt.co.uk which is an English website. Also, the results I'm getting via Google in English are 8,840 for Issama Mpeko and only 79 results for Djo Issama Mpeko. – Michael (talk) 06:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I might also consider moving this page to Mpeko Issama because I'm getting 22,500 Google hits for that including FIFA.com, Sky Sports, Soccernet and Soccerbase. – Michael (talk) 11:43, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mike

I supported 2 out of 3 of your RMs, the problem with this one is BLP sources.

As regards above. Same question: MTN Football.com, Goal.com, uk.eurosport.yahoo.com, footballdatabase.eu, footballzz.com? Why should any of these websites be considered WP:BLP-compliant and WP:RS-compliant sources? Has anyone verified that these sources pass WP:RS? The only one of these that might be a reliable source is fifa.com. How do Fifa.com source their data?

I'm not saying that there aren't potential WP:BLP+WP:RS-compliant reliable sources out there which drop the "Djo." I just found at least one: UFC République Démocratique du Congo "Issama Mpeko," then that's fine. The question is, what is this living persons name according to WP:RS? In ictu oculi (talk) 10:25, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are you even looking for sources in English? Because the sources you're providing aren't in English and will not cut it. – Michael (talk) 00:42, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mike,

What do you mean "not cut it" - cut what? Where are you getting the idea from that local D.R. Congo sources can't be used to verify the name of a D.R. Congo living person who lives, works and has primary notability in D.R. Congo? En.wp uses local language sources for accuracy when someone is locally notable to a non-English speaking country.

Certainly there are 100,000s of WP:BLPs which don't/haven't checked the living person's name in a reliable source, however when an article is brought to RM then the sources come under scrutiny for WP:RS.

Of course I did look for existence of local English-language WP:RS, in neighbouring African countries, where he played in 2011 - I looked at http://www.cafonline.com/competition/orange-can-2013_2013/news/14557-only-one-result-left-to-complete-the-afcon-2013-final-qualifiers-list.html and http://en.starafrica.com/football/dr-congo-the-23-for-the-chan-143346.html I'm not sure if the first is a print source, but at least it is African. The second might be an English WP:RS.

But why should I be the one doing the looking? I'm opposing because the nomination hasn't cited any reliable RS. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:COMMONNAME, article titles are determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources. I've already thrown up a bunch of English sources, which is just about the only thing I can do in this nomination. – Michael (talk) 03:18, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on sources - Transfermarkt is not a reliable source, however NFT generally is considered one. Giant Snowman 10:12, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Mpeko Issama, as FIFA.com is a reliable source for the name. Issama Mpeko should be acceptable as well. With only one source using "Djo," I don't see a good reason for keeping it. Compare to Sheyi Emmanuel Adebayor or Gnégnéri Yaya Touré. --BDD (talk) 21:20, 29 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

BDD, sure but Tottenham Hotspur and Manchester City FC are not African clubs, and those two players' local (UK) sources support an abbreviated name. This player plays in Kinshasa, and local DR Congo sources have "Djo" same as we have Djo Tunda Wa Munga at full name. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:42, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - mainly to just close this down and get it off the WP:RM backlog. Michael, still not happy with "thrown up a bunch of English sources" as an argument. This is against the spirit of WP:BLP "get the article right" and WP:RS "best such sources." Particularly with African BLPs African sources should be sought out.In ictu oculi (talk) 03:24, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.