Talk:Alliance of Democrats (Poland)

Requested move

Stronnictwo Demokratyczne → Democratic Party (Poland) : To follow other articles on countries' Democratic Parties. (Also easier for English-speaking users.)

Voting and discussion

Please add  * Support  or  * Oppose  followed by a brief explanation, then sign your vote using "~~~~"

• Support as proposer. David Kernow 15:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
• Support Bubba ditto 01:30, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 20:36, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Mendel Balberyszski

One of the leaders in the Polish Democratic party in 1939 was Mendel Balberyszski. Does anyone know his exact title and/or position? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 8digits (talk • contribs) 15:38, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

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Wouldn't "Democratic Party (Poland)" be better translation of the name?

Hi, I belive "Democratic Party (Poland)" would be better translation of the name, and that current translation is wrong. Firstly, "alliance" means "sojusz", and not "stronictwo", which would be just "party". Word stronictwo, literally means 'a side of something', or 'a part of something', eg, a party. Futhermore, polish title is in adjective, so even "Democratic Alliance" would be more correct in this case. As such, "Alliance of Democrats" would rather be translation of "Sojusz Domokratów", than "Stronictwo Demokratyczne". Artemis Andromeda (talk) 14:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I agree that there is a need for change and that the Democratic Party would be the closest translation to the original. Is there any English-language literature mentioning the party? -- Antoni12345 (talk) 16:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Antoni12345 Honestly, I don't know how to exactly research printed literature. By Googling, I found quite a few scientific papers about history of Polish politics, that used name Democratic Party. And I personally wasn't able to find anything for Alliance of Democrats. Artemis Andromeda (talk) 19:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

It should stay "Alliance of Democrats" per WP:COMMONNAME. It is a translation of the party's name commonly used in academia. Here are some recent examples:

• Democratic transition with those responsible for martial law? Moral criticism of the Polish round table talks by István Miklós Balázs - "In the PRL there was a quasi-one-party system. In addition to the unquestionable dominance of the PZPR, other allied parties – the United People’s Party (Zjednoczone Stronnictwo Ludowe) and the Alliance of Democrats (Stronnictwo Demokratyczne) – also took part in the National Assembly." on p. 107;
• Plurality of Liberalisms. The Parliamentary Liberal Groups in the Third Polish Republic: An Analysis of Party Programmes and their Differences by Arkadiusz Lewandowski - "Stronnictwo Demokratyczne, SD (Alliance of Democrats)" on p. 115;
• Evolution of the Political System in Poland after 1989 by Małgorzata Lorencka, Małgorzata Myśliwiec and Waldemar Wojtasik - "United People's Party (Zjednoczone Stronnictwo Ludowe) and the Alliance of Democrats (Stronnictwo Demokratyczne) were recognised as its satellites, but that construction at least gave the impression of pluralism." on p. 65;
• Controversies Surrounding the Selection of Candidates for MPs Before the Election to the PRL Sejm of January 1957 by Robert Skobelski - "The United People’s Party (ZSL) and the Alliance of Democrats (SD) also wanted to benefit from the circumstances, as they strove to widen the margin of their independence from the weakened PZPR." on p. 460;
• The state tribunal and the paradoxes of socialist legality in 1980s Poland by Jakub Szumski - "It came rather from the Alliance of Democrats (Stronnictwo Demokratyczne, SD), a bloc party of the PZPR, which had first put forward the idea back in 1958 during the period of de-Stalinization." on p. 7;
• Digging Politics: The Ancient Past and Contested Present in East-Central Europe by James Koranyi and Emily Hanscam - "(Alliance of Democrats, SD), who seemed to have no inclination for Slavic issues." on p. 139.

Brat Forelli🦊 20:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Brat Forelli

I see. But how about less recent examples? Becouse I'm honestly quite afraid that perhaps those were influenced by Wikipedia having English name as "Alliance of Democrats" for over 10 years. Also, as I said, if you look for "Democratic Party (SD)" you will also find lots of academia using said name. For example:

• Polish Politics and the “Jewish Question” on the Eve of World War II, 1936–1939, Cambridge University Press, 2015, "... Democratic Party (SD). At the very beginning of the war, the latter parties formed the Polish Underground's political wing"
• Assisting Negotiated - Transition to Democracy, Instytut Spraw Publicznych, 2006, "... Democratic Party (SD). However, to a limited extent, this fact also contributed to the existence of political pluralism"
• Divided Government in Poland, Oxford Academic, 2001, "...Democratic Party (SD) broke with the Polish United Workers' Party (PZPR) and joined in a Solidarity‐dominated government led by Tadeusz..."
• Evaluating International Influences on Democratic Development: Poland 1980-1989, Stamford University, 2008, "...Democratic Party (SD) and United Peasants' Party (ZSL). Former party ..."
• [https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A041000940001-2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiU-dTmuZuJAxUrKxAIHbZBMgg4ChAWegQIGBAB&usg=AOvVaw36UD9hau8Z-6h4mIQDE7u-

ELECTION OF POLISH DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADERS], CIA.gov, "...report on the elections of the Polish. Democratic Party (SD) during the congress of January 1958. Lists of individuals elected to the Central Committee..."

• The Democratic Party (SD) in Kujawsko-Pomorska Biblioteka Cyfrowa (I'm not exacly certain where this comes from, but seems to be quite old publication), "The origins of the Democratic Party go to the ..."

So as you can see there's plenty of examples of Democratic Party being used, and arguably being the commonname. Additionally, I would also point out that Encyclopedia Britanica also uses that name. (see: Democratic Party, "not to be confused with Poland’s other Democratic Party, Stronnictwo Demokratyczne [SD], founded in 1939"). Artemis Andromeda (talk) 22:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

But how about less recent examples?

We want the current common name, not a historical one. If your point is that a different used to be common, then you are making a case for a redirect (which is already present) instead.

There are sources that use "Alliance of Democrats" from 2012 for example, so over 10 years ago. Hardly a need to dig deeper into the past, as far as this article goes:

• The Polish Growth Miracle: Outcome of Persistent Reform Efforts by Hartmut Lehmann: "SD – Stronnictwo Demokratyczne (Alliance of Democrats)" on p. 43;
• Independence Day: Myth, Symbol, and the Creation of Modern Poland by M. B. B. Biskupski: "SD Stronnictwo Demokratyczne (Alliance of Democrats)" on p. 15;
• Time to Treat Lukashenko Seriously by Paweł Kowal: "... while the Kaczyński brothers (Lech and Jarosław Kaczyński were Solidarity activists who later became leading right-wing politicians – editor’s note) were looking within Stronnictwo Demokratyczne (the Alliance of Democrats) and the Zjednoczone Stronnictwo Ludowe (United People’s Party – both were “satellite” communist parties under the communist system – editor’s note).".

I would also point out that Encyclopedia Britanica also uses that name.
Why? There was no consensus on Britannica being a reliable source (WP:BRITANNICA). It is a tertiary source that similarly to Wikipedia, is at least in part written by freelancers or editors. It would not make a good reason for us.

Becouse I'm honestly quite afraid that perhaps those were influenced by Wikipedia having English name as "Alliance of Democrats" for over 10 years.
But we do want the currently common name. If there was a shift in the translation used and Wikipedia contributed to that, and that does not sit right with you, then I am sincerely sorry. Neither of us are responsible for that situation. The problem is that a pre-2010 common name is not really relevant to our cruel reality of October 2024.

(I'm not exacly certain where this comes from, but seems to be quite old publication), "The origins of the Democratic Party go to the ..."
This source states that Stanisław Olszewski was the president of the (exiled) Stronnictwo Demokratyczne at the time. Olszewski had that function until 1947, and the source also mentions the year 1945, which means it was written between 1945 and 1947. The name used for the party in the 1940s is not relevant. That is, excuse me, dustbin of history, along with things like "Rumania", name for Romania that was gradually phased out by "Romania" after WW2. Brat Forelli🦊 12:04, 20 October 2024 (UTC)