Talk:Dejan Stojanović

Establishing notability and verifying content

• We need to establish notability for this subject.

1. The collection of works by the subject have been shown on Amazon to be published by New Avenue Books, which is a vanity press and only shows that you are the sole author this publisher has worked with. Can you provide some clarification? Cindy(need help?) 03:16, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
2. How does the Reference section differ from the Bibliography section? What is the purpose of the Bibliography section? We already have a section of his published works, references, and external links. So again, why Bibliography? Cindy(need help?) 03:23, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

1. Bibliography section was created by Airplaneman (administrator) and contains some more information that can be merged with references. thanks for this information; these additional sources were mistakenly added to the article, rather than to the talk page.
2. Other than that, believe it or not, you are not even talking about this article at all. If you were talking about this article, you would not insist on self-published books and some vanity press not mentioned anywhere in the text but would check the facts and the books that are listed in the Library of Congress Online Catalog. If you are eager to delete some other pages that you, in fact, are talking about, please go ahead and delete them immediately without sarcastic tones and please don’t use this page for that purpose. This article was recognized as a good article by some very diligent administrators in the past. It is transparent that you use this article only for some other purpose otherwise you would talk about the facts from this article and would not insist on ignoring them, which is obvious based on the conversation from your talk page. I suppose we discuss the article from different perspectives. My concerns focus on addressing issues with the article in order to identify and establish notability. As far as self-publishing, as I have stated, Amazon shows that the volumes of poetry are published by New Avenue Books, which is a vanity press and only shows that you are the sole author this publisher has worked. Again, can you clarify? An additional note, this article has never been identified as a good article. Please review WP:AGF. Keep in mind that it is important to assume good faith of your fellow editors. As far as sarcasm, tone is undetectable in writing. Again, assume good faith.
3. Main publishers listed (among other reputable publishers) in the article are Narodna knjiga and Prosveta, major publishers in Belgrade, with thousands of published books and there is nothing in the text related to your remark. Good faith efforts are important, Cindy. You cannot use misinformation as a fact or artificially create it if it does not appear in the text. Also, please fix the errors made in the text (parenthesis) as indicated at least two times on your talk page. Mountlovcen8 (talk) 09:04, 8 April 2013 (UTC) no idea where you're coming from here. If you have questions or suggestions, please make sure to add them here on the talk page. Also, please review the behavioural guidelines for talk pages. Best regards, Cindy(need help?) 11:01, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I must kindly state that the first part of your title on this page Establishing notability and verifying content is logically false. If you think carefully, you will realize that no discussion of this kind can establish notability of anybody. Notability is already established or not. So this notability must be recognized, not established, because neither you nor I have the power or authority to establish notability of somebody. If you are unaware of somebody’s notability, I must kindly remark again, then you should become familiar with the subject and the facts to become aware of it. Lack of awareness does not mean that something is not established but that you, I, or anybody else is not aware of it. The understanding of "notability" is different on Wikipedia than your understanding expressed here. Outside of familiarity and comprehensive understanding of the encyclopedia's policies and guidelines, it is not necessary for an editor to become familiar with the subject of a biography. Please review WP:N.

This article was recognized as a good article on the talk page by an administrator; it is not an official rating and this is not an important issue.

Information about the citations you need:

In regard to the law degree, the reference should read – University of Pristina, Law School. The wikilink provides information about the law school, while the article's prose offers information about the degree received. Encyclopedic writing attempts to refrain from redundancy.

Magazine Oko was a popular bimonthly Croatian magazine, mostly about literature and culture in general. Five poems were published there in the early eighties in the section Young Poets. I cannot find, at the moment, the record about this specific sequence in the libraries, but this information is correct. no idea why you're telling me this. Information may be accurate and true, but unless we have reliable and independent sources the assertion made, the content cannot be used in the article.

Reference in relation to Jedinstvo can be found at WorldCat. Keep in mind that libraries may state—article although it is related to poetry, like in this case a sequence of poems titled "Svetionik": [1] Do you have any actual reliable and independent sources that we could use to support notability? At this point, it appears that we merely have a boatload of sources that establish existence, rather than notability.

Jedinstvo was a Serbian daily newspaper in Pristina, Kosovo

This is the text:

Svetionik

Author: Dejan Stojanović

Edition/Format: Article : Serbian

Publication: Jedinstvo, 45, 332, str. 11

ISSN: 0021-5775

OCLC Number: 440922251

Notes: Ćirilicom.

Description: str. 11.

At the moment, I cannot find the record for Stremljenja in libraries (this was almost 30 years ago in Pristina, Kosovo. Instead you can use this one: [2] Gradina is a literary periodical in Nis, Serbia.

Author: Dejan Stojanović

Publication: Gradina, 26, 2-3, str. 136-137

ISSN: 0436-2616

OCLC Number: 443502273

Notes: Ćirilicom.

Description: str. 136-137.

Contents: Sadrži pesme: Novi vandali; Daleki sluh; Reminiscencija; Paklena zver; Rastrojstvo.

The paragrasphs below are about the article in general and the facts.

How did you come up with the idea about 125 poems? The mention of over 125 poems came from the article (see [3]) Just based on logic, that number would be impossible even for chap books and only Sunce sebe gleda contains 118 poems. You can check the number of pages easily if you press the Authority Control WorldCat button or Library of Congress in the article where you can find the information about every book. Official record clearly shows that the combined number of pages of these poetry books is 596.

Krugovanje (third edition)—six sequences, 56 poems, 83 p.;

Sunce sebe gleda—eleven sequences, 118 poems, 157 p.;

Tvoritelj—nine sequences, 62 poems, 96 p.;

Znak i njegova deca—five sequences, 43 poems, 59p.;

Oblik—six sequences, 46 poems, 66 p.

Ples vremena—Book I—four sequences, 46 poems and Book II, four sequences, 29 poems.

The total number of sequences is 45. The total number of pages is 596. The total number of poems is 400. This record is easy to check if you just visit the pages listed as Authority Control and check the books one by one. It is logically impossible that the number of poems, usually not longer than a page, would be 125 or even remotely around that number. Think about it. Where did you see a book of collected poems, for example, with 600 pages containing only 125 poems?

Your use of the term poetry collection in the section Published works is incorrect The term "Poetry collections" is poor English grammar. Collection is the accurate term, reflecting a set of items or multiple related objects associated as a group. since this is not one poetry collection but six, not eight, although the book Ples vremena consists of two books, so it can be seven, but not eight as you stated. Krugovanje had three editions and the third edition contains an added cycle—"Zrno" ("A Grain"). This term should be Poetry collections, not Poetry collection. The same term, used in your opening paragraph, is misleading because it appears, the way you wrote it, that these books were only written in the Serbian language but not published as books in Serbian but only in the English. (I think the use of an article the is correct before Serbian or any other language, even if the word language is not used; check it out; specifically check some books of translated works where it almost always states: Translated from the French (for instance) by such and such translator. Respectively, your grammar is difficult to understand. Keep in mind that I am not writing this article, but rather cleaning it up to ascertain viability for inclusion in the encyclopedia. My goal here is to establish notability through significant coverage in reliable and independent sources. Primary sources or sources that merely establish the existence of the subject's works will not establish encyclopedic notability.

These poems were published as separate poetry collections in Serbia. You should make these things clear and not misleading or otherwise unclear.

Since you insist on Amazon, where do you find in this article any reference to Amazon? I would recommend that you forget Amazon since it has nothing to do with this article and your remark about vanity press is incorrect. This is a new press, established with the idea to publish mainly works in translation by different authors in the format of e-books and that is a time consuming process so it will take some time before these authors appear. Again, why would we ignore information about a subject? These books are listed in Amazon, published by New Avenue Books, which is a vanity press and only shows that you are the sole author this publisher has worked with. Why do you want to ignore this information, rather than simply providing clarification?

This article is mainly about the work originally written in Serbian and published by the major Serbian publishers. Do you think that publishers like Narodna knjiga and Prosveta are not legitimate? No, I have never stated this. Do you question the physical presence of these books in the Library of Congress? No, I have never stated this. Do you state that the information in the Library of Congress based on the actual books is not correct? No, I have never stated this. The Library of Congress lists all these books with the information about publishers and the number of pages. These publishers are: Narodna knjiga, Prosveta, Knjizevna rec, Gramatik, Konras. Majority of the books were published by Narodna knjiga. Do you state that this information, in spite of the evidence, is not correct? No, I have never stated this. I am trying to be more than polite but I don’t know how to convince you to recognize the facts. Of what facts are you referring? Regarding the publisher Narodna knjiga, you added the word University after Alpha, although that is not the wording used either in the books or shown in the record in any library. Please check this again in the Library of Congress Online Catalog, WorldCat, and Google books. The word was Alfa, which translates to Alpha University in Belgrade. Since this is the English Wikipedia, it has been translated for English readers.

Regarding the literary club Karagac and interviews on the local radio, it would be impossible for me to obtain that information on the Internet now since this was a long time ago and since you excluded even some more important information (including even the photograph with Saul Bellow), then this one is not so important either. images have only been temporarily removed during editing. As far as not being able to obtain information on the Internet, keep in mind that printed sources work just as well. Anything in books, magazines, journals, etc.

I must kindly make this statement: In general, it doesn’t look like you are improving the article but rather making it much less appealing; Many people find it a bit jolting when attempting to write or edit articles on Wikipedia, then find that others come along and revise it to the point of boredom. Encyclopedia articles are not provided to appeal to the masses. It's informational in nature. We don't add a lot of pretty pictures or add extraneous information. We work to maintain neutrality at all times. It is misleading, unclear, and you are still ignoring the facts. Your remark about the difference of perspectives is one thing but good faith or arbitrary behavior is another. I assumed your good faith and spent a lot of time providing you with the information on your talk page but you were insisting on the subject not related to this article and ignored the facts instead of kindly requesting the specific information before you change the text to make sure you are at least a bit familiar with the subject. You did it the opposite way. Even if you had everything on the plate, you would still have to get familiar with the subject and check the facts. You cannot state, to use just one example, that the number of poems is 125 based not on the actual fact, but based on the fact that you refuse to check this out although the information is available. Insisting on presenting wrong information as a fact cannot be classified as a good faith effort or different perspective but rather arbitrary behavior. Would you just offer an explanation how 125, mostly short poems, would need 600 pages to be written on? All the official records, which you refuse to check, show that the total number of pages of all the books is almost 600.

Are you stating that users don’t have the right to insist that you get familiar with the subject matter and the facts before you make changes based on different perspectives or opinions? {green|I never said that, but it would be an accurate statement.}} Are you stating that your perspectives and opinions are necessarily Wikipedia’s perspectives? You may want to spend some time reviewing the project's policies and guidelines yourself. Are you stating that a person sincerely interested in moving you into the right direction about the facts cannot do that? That's a rather subjective statement. You may assume that you are attempting to assist others by steering them in the right direction, but if that direction is in opposition to the policies and guidelines of the project, the issue is moot. Behavioral guidelines were not established to block the facts. I cannot find a way to make you recognize the facts if you refuse to do so. This is the only issue: your insisting on using misinformation as a fact and your refusal to perform due diligence to find out that, for example, 125 poems (among other issues) is incorrect. Mountlovcen8 (talk) 20:34, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Please read the article from the World Literature Today by Branko Mikasinovich, digitized by Google and listed in references. Another author (literary critic), Miloslav Sutic, who wrote about Stojanovic is listed in the bibliography on the official site of Umerto Eco. To make this clear, not the reference about Stojanovic but the article Sutic wrote about Umberto Eco. The point being made is that notable authors would not write about subjects or authors who did not prove, through their work, significance and notability.

In order to avoid further confusion and further errors you may make (before I make more comments), I would recommend that you use this format (which includes references) for your revision since I think, based on the protocol used with many other articles and authors, this is the right way to do it. Number of poems is not an important fact, especially for the opening paragraph and also the number you used, 125, is not correct and you did not answer how did you calculate this. If poetry collection is the right term why, then, poetry collections term is used in the majority of articles on this very Wikipedia? If familiarity with the subject is not important to you, then how do you think articles are written or edited since it is a conditio sine qua non.

This is the way (see below) the first section should be, in my opinion, because the number of poems is not important for the opening paragraph and the sentence from the first section you moved to the Style section is now redundant, although in the first paragraph it was not only appropriate but much better fitted for that section than your revised version. There was a mistake regarding Arbutina reference—it is Znak I njegova deca and not Sunce sebe gleda (this was fixed). The first sentence from the Style section was placed back since it is much more illustrative of the subject and is much more appropriate than the number of poems. Also, this sentence, as you placed it in the Style section sounds redundant there in comparison to the next sentence and starts this section with the word his instead of Stojanovic and was strangely placed as a paragraph:

Dejan Stojanović (Serbian: Дејан Стојановић, pronounced [dejan stojanoʋitɕ]) (born 11 March 1959) is a Serbian-American poet, writer, essayist, philosopher, businessman, and former journalist. His poetry is characterized by a recognizable system of thought and poetic devices, bordering on philosophy, and, overall, it has a highly reflective tone. According to the critic Petar V. Arbutina, “Stojanović belongs to the small and autochthonous circle of poets who have been the main creative and artistic force of the Serbian poetry in the last several decades."

This is the way (see below) the next section should be, with references included, although this does not mean that some old information will not need to be placed back:

Early life

Dejan Stojanović was born on 11 March 1959 in Peć, Kosovo, formerly known as Yugoslavia. In 1972, he moved with his family to Sutomore, near Bar, Montenegro, where he completed his secondary education. He attended the University of Pristina at Kosovo. While he was predominantly interested in philosophy and the arts during his youth, he earned a degree in law.

This is the first paragraph of the next section (see below), with references included, except about a literary club, which information is impossible to obtain at the moment, but if it is so crucial, it is not that important and may be removed.

Writing background

In early 1978, he began to write poetry. He hid his work for three to four years, after which he published his poems in literary magazines in the former Yugoslavia. Magazines in which his work was published include Oko (The Eye) in Zagreb, Croatia; Stremljenja (Trends) and Jedinstvo (Unity) in Priština, and Gradina in Niš.

This is the way (see below), in my opinion, that the section titled Published works should be since I think this is based on the standard protocol. There are hundreds of articles on this Wikipedia about authors and their works and they almost never use, to the best of my knowledge, author’s name like in libraries in the sections of published works unless the name is in the title (although in libraries the last name is used first, then comma). Also colon should be used after each date. I don’t object to your idea in general but it is not the way it is done here (it is used mainly in libraries) since it is obvious that the author about whom the article is wrote the books. In libraries there are no articles in catalogs and the name must be emphasized.

Published works

Stojanović has written over 400 poems in Serbian which have been translated into the English language.

Poetry collections

• (1993): Circling: 1978–1987, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• (1998): Circling: 1978–1987 – 2nd edition, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• (1999): The Sun Watches Itself, (Serbian: Sunce sebe gleda), Pub: Književna reč, Belgrade
• (2000): The Sign and its Children, (Serbian: Znak i njegova deca), Pub: Prosveta, Belgrade
• (2000): The Shape, (Serbian: Oblik), Pub: Gramatik, Podgorica
• (2000): The Creator, (Serbian: Tvoritelj), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• (2000): Circling – 3rd edition, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• (2000): Dance of Time, (Serbian: Ples vremena), Pub: Konras, Belgrade

Interviews

• (2000): Conversations, Pub: Književna reč, Belgrade

Below is the Style section.

Style

Stojanović’s collections contain sequences of compact, dense poems, simple yet complex in carefully organized overall structure, and that is why some more visibly than others appear as long poems. This is especially characteristic of the books, The Sign and its Children, The Shape, and The Creator (Znak I njegova deca, Oblik, Tvoritelj), in which, with a relatively small number of words repeated in different contexts, Stojanović built his own poetic cosmogony. For that reason, writer and critic, David Kecman, described him as a cosmosophist. Mountlovcen8 (talk) 19:17, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

If you are really acting in good faith, then this issue can be resolved easily since I realize that there is a lot of misunderstanding. I insist on the familiarity with the facts, first and foremost, so we should not take every word literally. Wikipedia rules do not exclude familiarity with the facts, but it is hard to establish or form this familiarity with the facts without some familiarity with the subject in order to be able to evaluate. For instance, if you just asked about the number of poems or requested clarification or offered an explanation where you are coming from, this would have been clarified easily. The section you used for this counting, I agree, was misleading and I should have removed it before because those poems have been originally written in English and are not in the books listed in this article and originally written in Serbian.

These are the titles of poems in English from just one book, Sunce sebe gleda (instead of using quotation marks I am putting the whole section in italics):

(First poem) Inferno; Sequence SKY-MOTION: The Most Beautiful Poem, First Silence, Top and Bottom, Marked by Infinity, Windmill, Holy Fire, Vortex, Cosmos, Cosmos Flower, Are You or Are You Not?; Sequence GOD AND CIRCLES: The Day of the Universe, Sky and Circle, The Truth of the Circle, God and a Circle; Sequence SKYWALKING: Rain of the Absolute, A Cloud, Cloud II, Light and Night, A Deceit, The Young Old Being, Eternity and Existence, Eternity and Eternity, Zero, Speed, Infinity and End; Sequence FORGOTTEN PLACE: Hearthstone, A Fairy Tale and the, End, A Paradox, God’s Apprentice, Beguilement, Solid Ground, God Is Busy, Star in the Grass, His Letter, Forgotten Place, Fire, Reprise; Sequence A STONE AND A WORD: Where Does a Song End?, A Word, A First Word, A Stone and a Word, Combining Words, Hidden Words, Unuttered Words, Stories, Word Hypnosis, Just a Few Words, The Same Story, Thought, A Lie, Truth and Lie, Socrates, Tiredness, New Word; Sequence WHAT AFTER: Dumbness, Or, A Tame Sound, Here and There, Nothing, A Lantern, This and Like That, What Afterwards, The Knight, Knights; Sequence A GAME: No!, War, Things, Cheat, Circus, His Highness, The Dwarf, Virus of the Soul, Merit and Failure, Lengthening the Day, Game I, Game II, Game III, Reflection of an Upset Person; Sequence IS IT POSSIBLE TO WRITE A POEM: Does God Exist?, Insult I, God’s Son, Christ, Head, Life, A Flash of Silence, Benefactors, Is It Possible to write a Poem, Break; Sequence HOPELESSNESS: Paralysis, Face to Face, If, There and Here, Absurd, Insult II, Hoax, A Thought about Ourselves, A Question for the Sun, Séance, The Old Bench, Garden; Sequence SOUND OF THE SILENCE: Whisper Your Secret to Me, Empathy, Somebody Always Waits, Simplicity, The Way; Hell and Paradise, Flavor of the Field, Cure, A Light Beam, The Day; Sequence BEETHOVEN AND DEATH: Exits, Secret, Secret and the Truth, Treasury of the Source, Beethoven and Death, Same Sight, Perhaps. As you can see, the total number of poems is 118 in just one book and these titles are not the same as the ones you used. If you need more, I can provide you with all the titles.

I will mention some authors, used as references, who wrote about Stojanovic’c books: Miloslav Sutic who wrote many books in Serbia and is a major literary critic there; Alek Vukadinovic, a major Serbian poet; Aleksandar Petrov, literary critic, novelist and poet with many books published; Branko Mikasinovich, a notable Slavist; Petar Arbutina, literary critic.

Below is the article published in the World Literature Today in English about Sunce sebe gleda and you can easily find it yourself if you want to since this reputable periodical is published in the US:

The second collection of Dejan Stojanovic's verse, "The Sun is Watching Itself," is covered by a metaphysical and philosophical veil. Eleven segments are connected by these two abstract approaches and by such key images as a circle, suggesting infinity, and silence, reflecting space and eternity. The circle serves as a powerful symbol and a device of the perpetual in this poetry: "the end without endlessness is only a new beginning," claims the poet. Thus, one of the poems bears the title "God and Circle," symbolizing the perennial search for an exit and the eventual finding of one, which only leads into another circle and to continuous evolution. This prompts Stojanovic to pose the question "Is God himself a Circle?"--implying that God is endless and ever present.

Although concise, the poems convey in a powerful and specific manner messages from the triad circle-God-eternity, connected by man's destiny and the poet's concept of human life and origins, and of the universe itself. In other words, microcosmic observations lead to macrocosmic revelations and didactic conclusions. The poems seem to teach us what is obvious in the context of common sense, often surprisingly remote to the modern man.

In terms of style and format, the author has a coextensional approach; he uses relatively simple expressions and words in an interplay of brilliant meanings that bring about highly complex but easily readable structures. If elegance is represented by simplicity, then these are some of the most elegant verses imaginable; unadorned verses that are a source of beauty and wisdom.

Stojanovic's perceptions of light and darkness, of fantasy and reality, of truth and falsehood present us with a circular format of infinity and resurrection.

The format has its logical beginning and end. "The Sun is Watching Itself" begins with poems dedicated to God and the universe, then descends from the metaphysical to the philosophical, focusing on more ordinary such us the symbolic meaning of a stone, a game, a place, silence, hopelessness, and the question "Is it possible to write a poem?" Stojanovic's collection might well serve as an affirmative answer to this question. The poet has taken us on a long journey from God and universe to our everyday world. We all seem to be a part of a circle, says the author, searching for the eternal in the universe, only to realize the finality of life on earth. The poet's message is doubly effective for its extraordinary, soul-searching content and its reflective, powerful language.

-Branko Mikasinovich, Washington, D.C. WLT World Literature Today, A Literary Quarterly of the University of Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma Volume 74, Number 2, Page 442, Spring 2000

Here is the translation of the Afterword by Alek Vukadinovic:

In a colorful landscape of contemporary Serbian poetry, a careful reader can recognize that one of its branches, with a decidedly reflective experience of the poetic tradition and heritage, corresponds with a Serbian medieval age, opens up for its Byzantine chords and, in the context of contemporary poetry, is closest to Modern Classicism. In the first wave of Serbian post-World War II poetry, this stream was at the very foundation of a revival, which is almost suppressed today.

It seems that precisely today, in the atmosphere of almost complete saturation by the practice of ever changing poetic trends, Serbian poetry is returning to its basics. This picture of a slow rebound, a long awaited reorientation on the Serbian poetic scene, is already happening, by all accounts, and is being sensed in the actual literary production.

Reading the book Circling triggers the associations of this kind of a wave, which is not underground anymore, but has transformed itself into an actual poetic phenomenon. Dejan Stojanović, obviously, is not influenced by any contemporary poetic school or fashionable poetic trend, and is not trapped by some sensibility as a “follower.” Stojanović, as a reflective poet of mature thought and discourse, revives the atmosphere of the ancient (antic) times even in the first layers of his poems. It is easy to notice what specifically marks Stojanović in Serbian contemporary poetry: In weaving his poems and building his lines, a poet has returned to the antic form of utterance, to the difficult and slow movement of the poetic matter, to the dignified and solemn tone, and that kind of wisdom which was nourished in ancient times.

Far from experiments, from challenges of hazards and poetic adventures, Stojanović’s poems exude the dignity of ancient forms. Similar to the techniques of painters, Stojanović condenses his utterances into short, harmonious poems, most often colored with Mediterranean colors, surprisingly successfully. His poems, almost by a rule, are condensed forms made of short utterances. In the second part of the book, poetic palette becomes darker with an introduction of fantastic and hallucinogenic elements and even apocalyptic tones. Nevertheless, the principle of condensation and consistency of form is never questioned. Apocalyptic scenes and images of evil are expressed in huge blocks that give the impression of a work of an architect or a sculptor. Such are the poems “Vision,” The Chess Board,” “Arrival of Darkness,” and “River of Death,” which all appear as compositions. There is a feeling that Stojanović wrote his poems along with visual compositions; to that extent, visual-imaginative effects are impressive.

Specific, surprisingly original, outside the collectively nurtured sensibilities and fashionable trends, Stojanović is an extraordinary example of creative individualism in a generation that nourished such individualism the least. For that reason, the book Circling is not only an example of an extraordinary poetic achievement, which represents a strong encouragement to the important branch of Serbian poetry, but is also an announcement of a moral and spiritual project – a project that belongs to the tradition of Serbian poetry and thought in the best sense of the word.

-Alek Vukadinović Afterward to the first Serbian edition (1993)

Here is the translation from the back cover of Krugovanje, 3d edition, by Petar Arbutina (who also wrote about other books).

Dejan Stojanovic’s poems are astute and spiritual tangents of a circle that comprises the phenomena hidden beyond the direct naming of the world and things in poetic transposition. With his poems, he seeks the borderlines between the content and its metaphysical expression, pure thought about the world and its essence. Passion and complete and easy flowing devotion to poetry and to the power of words, poetically and semantically, above all, shape his original poetic output.

-Petar V. Arbutina

This is how the information about the books should be (parentheses not needed if there is no name before them):

• 1993: Circling: 1978–1987, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• 1998: Circling: 1978–1987 – 2nd edition, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• 1999: The Sun Watches Itself, (Serbian: Sunce sebe gleda), Pub: Književna reč, Belgrade
• 2000: The Sign and its Children, (Serbian: Znak i njegova deca), Pub: Prosveta, Belgrade
• 2000: The Shape, (Serbian: Oblik), Pub: Gramatik, Podgorica
• 2000: The Creator, (Serbian: Tvoritelj), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• 2000: Circling – 3rd edition, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade
• 2000: Dance of Time, (Serbian: Ples vremena), Pub: Konras, Belgrade

Interviews

• 2000: Conversations, Pub: Književna reč, Belgrade

In regardg to the press you insist on, I provided a clarification but if you don't want to hear it or don't believe anything said, then it is hard to cooperate. Assumptions are not facts. It is a very complicated process with poetry e-books and many organizations do this with errors and without necessary navigational tools. As I said before, there will be more books comming but it takes time since these works will be mostly translations (it is not an easy process). Mountlovcen8 (talk) 22:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I see that you changed the number to 400 in the article but did not insert other references provided on the talk page. I still think that this is a wrong way since the number of poems is not important either in the opening paragraph of the section about published books. All references you needed are provided. On the other hand, you included the number of poems in the article and you should have used the books as the source because the only source for the number of poems in the books is the books themselves. I have provided you with the information about the exact number of pages in the books, with the number of sequences and poems, and with all the titles in The Sun Watches the Sun and I asked if you want all the titles. All this information about the number of poems and pages is correct and is based on actual books. Again, these books are in the Library of Congress and in some other libraries in America so this information can be checked if you want to since you ignore the facts offered here.

1. Krugovanje, 3d edition, Beleška o autoru, p. 83, Narodna knjiga, Alfa, Beograd, 2000

2. Circling: 1978–1987, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade

3. This information is from WorldCat

1. WorldCat [4]

Reference for Jedinstvo to be inserted is:

Svetionik. Author: Dejan Stojanović. Edition/Format: Poetry: Serbian. Publication: Jedinstvo, 5, 332, str. 11. ISSN: 0021-5775. OCLC Number: 440922251. Notes: Ćirilicom. Description: str. 11.

This is the link for the same source which can be inserted: [5]

4. #The other reference is for Stremljenja that I cannot find at the moment but this one can be used instead if Stremljenja or both cannot be kept:

Author: Dejan Stojanović. Publication: Gradina, 26, 2-3, str. 136-137. ISSN: 0436-2616. OCLC Number: 443502273. Notes: Ćirilicom. Description: str. 136-137. Contents: Sadrži pesme: Novi vandali; Daleki sluh; Reminiscencija; Paklena zver; Rastrojstvo.

This is the link for the information above that can be inserted too: [6]

Also words such as Paris, Podgorica, Petar Omcikus should be made to be used as links to the corresponding articles.

This should be used in the section journalism instead of the other name in regard to the award: Association of Writers of Serbia

This is how you placed the sentence from the opening paragraph to the section Style:

His poetry is characterized by a recognizable system of thought and poetic devices, bordering on philosophy, and, overall, it has a highly reflective tone.

Stojanović’s poetry collections are characterized by sequences of compact, dense poems, simple yet complex in carefully organized overall structure, and that is why some more visibly than others appear as long poems.

By doing this, you are making this section much worse, since it is a bad style to start this section with the word his and with two sentences in a row containing the same word characterized. You continue to do minor edits which don’t improve the article without inserting the references you requested and without any real improvement even three days later.

I have to make a few more clarifications and I expect that you, based on the information provided, will fix the article and the errors made since this is the third day the tag is kept and the errors are not fixed and no improvement was made. References provided should be inserted as described previously here. I do not want to interfere with anything before I resolve this unnecessary painful procedure.

If Poetry collections wording is poor grammar than the wording Poetry books should be used and I like Poetry books better. Poetry collection used as a term for multiple books is misleading because of the widespread use of this term in relation to a single book of poetry (containing many poems).

Since you did not deny the physical presence of these books, which would be impossible, and did not deny that the main publishers of these books are major publishers in Serbia, we have to move forward and check if you will recognize the major daily newspapers, weekly magazines and other publications used as sources.

You recognized the physical presence of the books and recognized the publishers but you still don’t recognize the newspapers, magazines, and literary periodicals.

I provided you with the content about The Sun Watches Itself from the World Literature Today written in English about the book published in Serbian. Do you question the existence of this text, of its validity or the validity of its author and do you question the reputation of the World Literature Today?

Do you think that all the sources (newspapers, magazines, periodicals) provided as references for this article are not legitimate? I asked you on your talk page if you want to receive all this physically, which would be very hard to do, and you never answered and I asked for instructions and questioned if you do this with other articles. (I don’t know if that part is still there because some notes disappeared after you moved conversation here and started this). You can find the information about these newspapers on these pages: Politika, Novosti, Borba, Blic.

Do you think that the photograph with Saul Bellow is only a pretty picture or that it would provide the section titled Journalism with a much better general picture about that section and provide exactly that what you are looking for (in this section for example)? Do you think that journalists can easily have interviews with the Nobel Prize recipients if they are not themselves notable? All this was more than twenty years ago, in regard to the journalism section; interviews with many notable writers in America, in Paris, and in Belgrade?

In relation to photographs, your first edit with four photographs kept was better.

Infobox should also include English as the language, not only Serbian and period 1978-present, which is obvious even based on the title of Krugovanje: 1978-1987 (poems written between 1978-1987). | language = Serbian, English | period = 1978-present

I think now all this should be fixed since you received enough information, so please fix the article so we can move on. Mountlovcen8 (talk) 05:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Reference for Oko is this:

Oko, Zagreb, rubrika Mladi pesnici (section, Young Poets)

Citation for the number of poems although I think that is not important, at least not in the opening paragraph, is this:

Circling: 1978–1987, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade, 1993; Circling: 1978–1987 – 2nd edition, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade, 1998; The Sun Watches Itself, (Serbian: Sunce sebe gleda), Pub: Književna reč, Belgrade, 1999; The Sign and its Children, (Serbian: Znak i njegova deca), Pub: Prosveta, Belgrade, 2000; The Shape, (Serbian: Oblik), Pub: Gramatik, Podgorica, 2000; The Creator, (Serbian: Tvoritelj), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade, 2000; Circling – 3rd edition, (Serbian: Krugovanje), Pub: Narodna knjiga, Alpha, Belgrade, 2000; Dance of Time, (Serbian: Ples vremena), Pub: Konras, Belgrade, 2000

Please respond because it is time for this article to be fixed. There is more than enough information if we act reasonably and the tag was placed three days ago. Thanks, Mountlovcen8 (talk) 07:23, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

References

Possible additional sources

• Dušan Vidaković, Slabiji sastav dijaspore, an interview with Dejan Stojanović, Blic, rubrika Kultura, str. 15, 16. septembar 1999. broj 947, Beograd
• Dušan Vidaković, Tužan svet plutokratije, robota i klovnova, an interview with Dejan Stojanović, Nedeljni dnevnik, rubrika Kultura, str. 29, godina IV, broj 153, 14 Januar 2000, Novi Sad, Vojvodina
• Z. R., Četiri naša pisca, Politika, rubrika Kulturni život, 8 decembar 2000, Beograd
• R. Popović, Novo u knjižarskim izlozima, Pogled sa visine (Razgovori), Politika, 24. januar 2000, Beograd
• R. Popović, Novo u knjižarskim izlozima, Ovako je bilo (Sunce sebe gleda), Politika, 17. januar 2000, Beograd
• Dragan Bogutović, Pesme simboli, Sedam knjiga (Kultura, književnost, pozorište, film), Večernje novosti, str. 10, 15. Avgust 1999, Beograd
• Zorica Novaković, Pitanja i nedoumice, Svet knjige, Borba (newspaper), 30. Mart 2000, Beograd
• Dušan Cicvara, Snovi iz dijaspore (Sunce sebe gleda), Beogradske novine, 17. septembar, 1999, Beograd
• Dejan Stojanović at Poem Hunter
• Poems by Dejan Stojanović
• Reflections with Saul Bellow by Dejan Stojanović
• Interview with Charles Simic by Dejan Stojanović
• A Few Moments with Steve Tesich by Dejan Stojanović

--Transferred from article. Cindy(need help?) 10:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Published works

• Dejan, Stojanović (1993). Krugovanje: 1978–1987 (Eng.: Circling), (Narodna knjiga, Alfa, Beograd
• Dejan, Stojanović (1998). Krugovanje: 1978–1987 (Circling), Second Edition, Narodna knjiga, Alfa, Beograd
• Dejan, Stojanović (1999). Sunce sebe gleda (The Sun Watches Itself), Književna reč, Beograd
• Dejan, Stojanović (2000). Znak i njegova deca (The Sign and its Children), Prosveta, Beograd
• Dejan, Stojanović (2000). Oblik (The Shape), Gramatik, Podgorica
• Dejan, Stojanović (2000). Tvoritelj (The Creator), Narodna knjiga, Alfa, Beograd
• Dejan, Stojanović (2000). Krugovanje (Circling), Third Edition, Narodna knjiga, Alfa, Beograd
• Dejan, Stojanović (2007). Ples vremena (Dance of Time), Konras, Beograd