Talk:Cecilia Renata of Austria

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To translate

I think this contains relevant info, but my knowledge from Germany prevents me from being certain. Plz translate if I am right or delete if not: --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 00:44, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

http://www.univie.ac.at/Geschichte/wienerhof/wienerhof2/register3.htm Erzherzogin Cäcilia Renata 1637 Obersthofmeister Freiherr Urban v. Pötting Obersthofmeisterin Freiin Margarita v. Herberstein Fräuleinhofmeisterin Freiin Anna Barbara v. Stübich

http://www.univie.ac.at/Geschichte/wienerhof/wienerhof2/register1.htm Hofstaat der Erzherzogin Cäcilia Renata - Hofmeister Urban von Pötting - Hofmeisterin Margarita von Herberstein - Adeliges Frauenzimmer Ursula Maria von Egg Apollonia von Goimb Anna Franziska von Goes Rosina von Eggenberg

http://www.univie.ac.at/Geschichte/wienerhof/wienerhof2/register3.htm Eggenberg, Freiin Rosina Margaretha v.: Hofdame Erzherzogin Cäcilia Renata Mai bis September 1637 Gall v. Gallenstein, Freiin Anna Barbara: Fräuleinhofmeisterin Erzherzogin Cecilia Renata August und September 1637, vereh. Stübich Hoyos, Freiin Franziska Johanna Katharina v.: Hofdame Erzherzogin Cecilia Renata [1636], Mai bis September 1637 Pranckh, Susanna Elisabeth v.: Hofdame Erzherzogin Cecilia Renata August und September 1637, vereh. Hochstaden Strozzi, Gräfin Lukretia Maria: Hofdame Erzherzogin Cecilia Renata Mai bis September 1637, vereh. Radziwill bzw. Kopec Stübich, Anna Renata v.: Hofdame Erzherzogin Cecilia Renata August und September 1637 Trooch v. Goes, Anna Franziska v.: Hofdame der Erzherzoginnen [1636] Valmarana, Gräfin Margarita: Obersthofmeisterin der Erzherzoginnen 1630-1637, Obersthofmeisterin Cecilia Renata von April bis September 1637, 1637-1644 (oder 1651) Obersthofmeisterin der Kaiserin Eleonore d. Ä., vereh. Herberstein Urschenbeck, Gräfin Anna Rosina v.: Hofdame Erzherzogin Cecilia Renata August und September 1637 Valmarana, Gräfin Margarita: Obersthofmeisterin der Erzherzoginnen 1630-1637, Obersthofmeisterin Cecilia Renata von April bis September 1637, 1637-1644 (oder 1651) Obersthofmeisterin der Kaiserin Eleonore d. Ä., vereh. Herberstein Wrbna, Gräfin Judith Rebecca v.: Hofdame Erzherzoginnen [1629]-1635, vereh. Lamberg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightst a llion (?) 20:27, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Move

Support Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles) on queen consorts, the title is missing her home territory. It states even in the article itself. Gryffindor 00:04, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Agree with Gryffindor, clearly stated in WP:NC. Prsgodd e ss187 12:48, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would support the suggested move. I admit to not knowing much about the Polish monarchy, but I think the case is clear. Deb 17:59, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose until question answered. Abstain. Why not 'of Poland'? She was a Polish queen consort, after all.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 02:15, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Because queen consorts always revert to their maiden form, in this case she was of Austria. Allow me to quote:

9. Past Royal Consorts are referred to by their pre-marital name or pre-marital title, not by their consort name, as without an ordinal (which they lack) it is difficult to distinguish various consorts; eg, as there have been many queen consorts called Catherine, use Catherine of Aragon not Queen Catherine. if you have an objection about this rule, I suggest you take it to the talk page and propose a reform. Until then, I am afraid this current article name will have to change. Gryffindor 12:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem silly, even by such Wikipedia rules, to be moving Queen Cecylia Renata to Austria, when

she was never queen anywhere but in Poland;
she predeceased her husband, King Władysław IV Vasa;
and she was the only Queen Cecylia Renata, anywhere.

One would think there would be provisions for exceptions from such rules, where their rigid application is patently absurd.

logologist|Talk 15:41, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the rules are pretty clear. If you would like to reform the rule, I suggest you take it to the talk page of the naming convention and propose a reform, no one would stop you. Gryffindor 16:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I won't oppose as I generally support the "of <Country>" description. Though this is not the case with Cecylia Renata, we used to also have other queen consorts who were referred to with their original names. Elżbieta Rakuszanka (Elisabeth of Austria), Anna Austriaczka (Ann of Austria) and so on. Halibu tt 17:49, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Correct form of her name. I think logo doesn't understand the methodology of naming. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 00:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Date of death

She certenly died in 1644. In Poland the date of her death is obvious. The problem is maybe concerned with the julianian calendar which in Englad was introduced later than in Poland. Moreover in old times in England the new year started in March not on January the 1st.