Talk:Cassandra phenomenon

This article was nominated for deletion on March 26, 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Is this really recognised as a psychological syndrome? The description here (predicting true events but not being believed) doesn't even sound like a syndrome. At least the version in Twelve Monkeys (believing that one can predict the future but cannot change it) sounds like a syndrome, although I only know it from that fictional work. In any case, we need references! —Toby Bartels 23:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well I found a couple of citation that specifically relate to Asperger Syndrome where the term seems to be "under creation" and is not, as yet, very clearly defined, and might not be considered valid at this point. --Zeraeph 17:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

cassandra complex

hi.

just wanted to say that i looked at a couple of medical online sources and came up with the following interesting reference, which may be of use to this wikipedia citation for someone able to access the book:

"The Cassandra Complex: Living with disbelief: A modern perspective on hysteria." Written by Laurie Layton Schapira in 1988. 159 Toronto: Inner city books. From a series entitled Studies in Jungian psychology by Jungian Analysts.

Idea of the book seems to be that sometimes women are intuitive, and may be prophetic. They get ignored and or villified. They doubt themselves. This is a loss. Rediscover this capacity to intuit the future.

I looked up classic texts on psychiatry (Oxford Textbook; and Kaplan & Sadock) Nil result on cassandra. Might be connected, then, in its exposition and dissemination, to Jungian analysis. Sorry, haven't read any Jung as yet.

211.31.213.97 16:14, 22 April 2007 (UTC)JH[reply]

BRILLIANT!! A REAL citation, I feel a rename coming on...--Zeraeph 17:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A source! A source! My kingdom, for a source! CeilingCrash 22:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. These sources (three movies, plus at least one psychological text) are verifiable. I believe clinical professor of Psychiatry at the Uni of California, Jean Shinoda-Bolen, also refers to the Cassandra experience in her book 'Gods in Everyman' (1989) in which she employs classical mythic figures as typologies for human behavior. The Shapira book and possibly also the Shinoda Bolen books can be cited as non-fictional references to the psychological syndrome. 121.222.133.213 07:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Zeraeph and others the page should be renamed Cassandra complex, especially with the new reference above by Schapira. Classicalnut 09:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This page is conceptually messy and needs fixing

We have three different phrases in use here, each with rather different origins and usages.

1. Cassandra phenomenon (Karen Rodman's term ? for AS partners experience, repeated by T. Attwood and others)
2. Cassandra syndrome (as explicated in popular films and common speech, and only rarely for AS partners)
3. Cassandra complex (a psychological term coined by Laurie Layton Schapira in the volume 'The Cassandra Complex: Living With Disbelief: A Modern Perspective on Hysteria (Studies in Jungian Psychology by Jungian Analysts, Vol 36' which describes others' disbelief of reported psychological disorder)

There is also 4. Cassandra affective deprivation disorder (or Affective Deprivation Disorder for short) coined by Maxine Aston, but that isn't mentioned and so isn't an issue here (despite CeilingCrash's ravings).

To jumble these all these 'Cassandra concepts' together amounts to messy synthesis. Someone please fix it by breaking it down into separate articles, each of which probably has validity on its own. Classicalnut 10:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What I would like to suggest for those wishing to improve this article is that 2. and 3. should be made into separate articles, as they are basically unrelated except for the namesake of Cassandra. And 1. could be subsumed (as a kind of history of the concept) under the heading of 4. as both titles are related to relationships affected by AS. I won't be contributing to the above suggestions as I'm working on other edits, unfortunately. Classicalnut 13:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have already stated a preference for moving this article to the, more formally cited Cassandra Complex and deleting the stub. --Zeraeph 13:53, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, Cassandra complex is definitely the best heading because it has a source. Also agree that 1. is not notable. 3. & 2. should not be artificially, originally synthesized with 1. (as they presently are). But 4. was deleted solely by its creator due only to vandalism to the article (see history here [1]), but can definitely be reproduced at any time as a new Wikipedia article. M. Aston is a notable individual who has respectable experience and qualifications (Masters degree in health psychology among them). Its up to the usual editors Classicalnut 14:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

Regarding Zeraeph's [merger proposal] I'd like to suggest that the Cassandra phenomenon page is presently a bric-a-brac [synthesis of published material] which attempts to merge all metaphorical uses of the mythic Cassandra figure under the idiosyncratic adjective "phenomenon": a word NOT used by most authors. I.e. the Cassandra phenomenon entry gathers disparate mentions of "Cassandra" from such sources as psychologists, myth, and movies and places them under a title designed by Tony Attwood for use specifically in the context of Asperger's syndrome relationships.

As soon as you employ a single title such as "Cassandra phenomenon" you immediately disqualify the other phrases and their varied definitions, eg. 'Cassandra complex', or 'Cassandra disorder', or 'Cassandra syndrome', or 'Cassandra in cinema', or 'Cassandra in pop-culture'. (PS. as a good pop-culture example we have the environmentalist movement employing "Cassandra" to people who are disbelieved when they talk about looming environmental disasters such as global warming).

Therefore the ONLY way to avoid an unworkable synthesis is to title a new page "Cassandra as metaphor" (or similar) and then list the subcategories: Environment, Psychology, Movies, In popular-culture, etc. Such a move allows all the disparate material to be displayed as examples of this one mythic metaphor. Alternatively all these metaphorical uses of Cassandra could all be placed on the Cassandra (Greek mythology) entry. Goddessculture (talk) 21:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

proposed structure for merger

Title: Cassandra as metaphor (?)

LEAD: (maybe something like) Cassandra was a figure from Greek mythology whose prophetic insights into the future were disbelieved by her contemporaries, but which nevertheless came true. This Greek myth has been taken up in modern times and employed as a metaphor for individuals who experience physical and emotional suffering as a result of distressing personal circumstances, and who are disbelieved when they attempt to share the cause of their suffering with others.

The Greek Cassandra myth:

The Cassandra metaphor in psychology:

Laurie Layton Schapira on 'hysteria'

Jean Shinoda-Bolen on the 'Cassandra woman'

Tony Attwood on Asperger's relationships

Melanie Klein on Guilt? (apparently she uses the Cassandra metaphor in her 1963 'Envy and Gratitude' though I have not read it).

The Cassandra metaphor in popular culture:

Movies

In the environment movement

In the corporate world/stock-market

Thats the only uses I've noticed. Goddessculture (talk) 03:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC) __________________________________________________________________________________[reply]