Talk:Carol Rosenberg

Article naming

The article's name may need to be corrected so that the last name is capitalised.--76.214.144.81 (talk) 00:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Done. Geo Swan (talk) 14:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

question...

Howard Kurtz's article said:

Rosenberg, who graduated from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst in 1982, reported from the Middle East and from Washington in the 1980s and 1990s. Now based in Miami, she has been a Knight journalism fellow at Stanford University and has appeared on PBS's "NewsHour."

I am not comfortable with how close the current wording of the biography section is to Kurtz's initial wording.

Rosenberg graduated from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst in 1982. She reported from the Middle East and from Washington in the 1980s and 1990s. She has been a Knight journalism fellow at Stanford University. She has also appeared on PBS's NewsHour.

Geo Swan (talk) 14:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Great work.--76.214.144.81 (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

rough work

The Miami Herald has, in the past, expired many of its articles after leavign them online for just a month or so. I archive some of their stories using webcitation.org, and I am going to list some of those articles here.

Wikipedia is not a storehouse for expired articles, however, noteworthy. Please discuss some other solution with an administrator.Parkwells (talk) 16:27, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• Parkwells, you didn't {{ping}} me, so I didn't see this note you left 7 years ago.
• Talk pages, and userspace, are supposed to be used to support building articles. I think keeping these references helps support building articles, so I think this is a legitimate use of Talk:Carol Rosenberg. I could list these in userspace - where they would be of less use to other contributors.
• If this still triggers a concern for you, do you think you could explain why, more fully? Geo Swan (talk) 18:11, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I see more about your point now. Isn't there a way to use the archived copies in references in the article, rather than listing these separately on the Talk page? I agree that the Miami Herald articles are very important, and you've done terrific work in recognizing Rosenberg's work.Parkwells (talk) 23:52, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

2020

1. Carol Rosenberg (2020-01-24). "Argument Erupts in Guantánamo Court Over Use of the Term 'Torture'". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. Retrieved 2020-01-26. "Objection," said Jeffrey D. Groharing, one of the prosecutors. "Facts not in evidence." Mr. Groharing has consistently protested the use of the word "torture," calling the term a legal conclusion that has not been made.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
2. Carol Rosenberg (2020-01-22). "He Waterboarded a Detainee. Then He Had to Get the C.I.A. to Let Him Stop". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. p. A20. Retrieved 2020-01-26. 'Please continue with the aggressive interrogation strategy for the next 2-3 weeks,' their C.I.A. supervisors cabled them, even after the psychologists had sought permission several times to stop using the waterboard and had sent their bosses a disturbingly graphic video montage of what they had been doing.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
3. Carol Rosenberg (2020-01-21). "Architect of C.I.A. Interrogation Program Testifies at Guantánamo Bay". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. p. A1. Retrieved 2020-01-26. It was an extraordinary moment in the slow-moving justice system set up to try foreign prisoners of the war on terror, with American lawyers for defendants who were tortured more than a decade and a half ago flipping the script to question an interrogator from the so-called black sites.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
4. Carol Rosenberg (2020-01-20). "Psychologist Who Waterboarded for C.I.A. to Testify at Guantánamo". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. p. A15. Retrieved 2020-01-26. The psychologists were called by lawyers to testify for one of the defendants, Mr. Mohammed's nephew, Ammar al-Baluchi. All five defense teams are expected to question them about policy and for graphic details of conditions in the clandestine overseas prisons, including one in Thailand that for a time was run by Gina Haspel, now the C.I.A. director.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
5. Carol Rosenberg (2020-01-18). "Sex, Power and Fury: The Mystery of a Death at Guantánamo Bay". The New York Times. Jacksonville, Florida. p. A21. Retrieved 2020-01-26. No one has been charged in his death, but on Friday, Captain Nettleton, his Navy career over, was convicted of obstruction of justice for covering up what happened that night.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
6. Carol Rosenberg (2020-01-10). "Bracing for a Busy Year at Guantánamo's War Court". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. p. A2. Retrieved 2020-01-26. But 2020 is shaping up to be, more than ever, my nearly nonstop year as the Guantánamo war-court reporter. The judges have scheduled a record 215 days of military-commission hearings in the war-crimes cases at the Expeditionary Legal Complex, the national-security court that is built on an abandoned airfield with a moldy trailer park for the troops and a crude tent city for the reporters and other observers.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

2019

1. Carol Rosenberg (2019-12-27). "Inside America's War Court: Clothing and Culture at Guantánamo Bay". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. p. A1. Retrieved 2020-01-26. To spend time at the military court as it moves toward the trial of the accused 9/11 conspirators — a proceeding years in the making — is to see those conflicts and others in a variety of ways, including through the clothes they wear and the messages they send.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
2. Carol Rosenberg (2019-12-26). "Sept. 11 Trial Judge Faults Secrecy in Guantánamo Prison Commander's Testimony". The New York Times. Washington DC. p. A14. Retrieved 2020-01-26. Even though the men were guarded by a secret, nonmilitary force disguised as American troops, the former commander said those forces "responded to my orders consistently." Because of that, he disagreed with a Senate study that found that the defendants of the Sept. 11 attack and other recent arrivals "remained under the operational control of the C.I.A." for an undisclosed amount of time.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
3. Carol Rosenberg (2019-12-04). "What the C.I.A.'s Torture Program Looked Like to the Tortured". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. p. A1. Retrieved 2020-01-26. Published here for the first time, they are gritty and highly personal depictions that put flesh, bones and emotion on what until now had sometimes been portrayed in popular culture in sanitized or inaccurate ways: the so-called enhanced interrogations techniques used by the United States in secret overseas prisons during a feverish pursuit of Al Qaeda after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
4. Carol Rosenberg (2019-11-08). "Judge Rules Prosecutors Misrepresented Evidence From C.I.A. Sites". The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. p. A18. Retrieved 2020-01-26. Prosecutors in the case of a Qaeda suspect misrepresented to defense lawyers what happened to him in C.I.A. custody, a military judge has ruled, complicating efforts to bring the suspect to trial at Guantánamo Bay and raising new questions about how the military commission system is dealing with the legacy of the C.I.A.'s secret prisons.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
5. Carol Rosenberg. The New York Times. Guantanamo Bay. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)CS1 maint: url-status (link)

2010

May 2010

• U.S. medic testifies he found teen chained to door at Afghan base
• Medic: I saw Omar Khadr shackled as punishment
• Changes to key Guantanamo evidence innocent, officer says
• Guantánamo interrogator: Treats made terror suspect talk
• Guantanamo court cleared to screen 'secret' YouTube video

April 2010

• Khadr bomb-making video in dispute during Guantanamo hearing
• Khadr refuses to attend Guantanamo hearing
• Key issues unanswered by Guantanamo tribunals manual
• Guantanamo torture claims at issue as court hears Khadr case
• U.S. attorney Bush fired now a Guantanamo prosecutor
• Guantanamo judge says detainee's trial won't begin for a year
• Guantanamo war court resumes hearings amid uncertainty
• Judge dismisses scores of Guantanamo habeas cases

March 2010

• Obama appoints new chief for war court at Guantanamo
• Judge orders detainee abused at Guantanamo to be freed
• No dissent in Guantanamo detainee review, Senate told

January 2010

• Guantanamo panel: 50 detainees should be held indefinitely

2008

January 2008

• Extra -- The only Canadian captive at Guantánamo Bay: OMAR AHMED KHADR

References

Undue weight

Too many quotes, space, and cites are given to the sexual harassment complaint, especially as Rosenberg was cleared. 1) The report of the complaint does not need nine cites - one or two from RS are sufficient, as the additional sources are not used for any additional or different information/content. 2) The fact that Gordon kept talking about the complaint in 2009 and 2011 belongs in his article, not hers. Therefore, I deleted the last two paragraphs that referred to Gordon and his continuing chatter in 2009 and 2011 (or not, as in Cain's campaign) about the sexual harassment complaint. I have moved these to Gordon's article, as to me it seemed more appropriate for them to be there.Parkwells (talk) 02:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

(In the following sections, I addressed Geo Swan's comments one at a time, so copied his signature to indicate that he had written each section.Parkwells (talk) 02:53, 11 October 2013 (UTC))

1. On the other hand there are critics of Rosenberg who continued to try to use the sexual harrassment allegations against her. There are critics who try to confuse their readers and conflate the sexual harassment complain with the (also) bogus complaint that she and three Canadian journalist "outed" Joshua Claus as Omar Khadr's primary interrogater in Bagram, even though he had already published interviews where he had identified himself.Geo Swan (talk) 19:16, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

   The article did not include either of these points: not cites by critics other than Gordon bringing up the sexual harrassment allegation, nor critics who try to conflate that complaint with one saying she had "outed" Claus. An article by Gordon in which he discussed her temporarily being banned in relation to Claus was used as a source, but that aspect of it (Claus) was not referred to in the content; rather, it said she created conflict, or something like that. I moved that to his article, as anyone can see there. Parkwells (talk) 02:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

2. Gordon's allegations are clearly a confusing issue. I don't agree that the explanation offered above is sufficient to justify the excision.Geo Swan (talk) 19:16, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

   Well, that's certainly your right as to your opinion. It seemed to me that including so much about Gordon's complaints, so that the sexual harassment portion was nearly equal or greater in length than the section on her entire career, seemed inappropriate.Parkwells (talk) 02:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

3. You made 21 edits on 2013-01-05. None of them has a "see talk" indicating it is the edit in question here. Could you please (1) produce the diffs to the edit(s) in question here; (2) in future, could you use diffs, or edit summaries that say "see talk", or both, if you ever initiate discussions like this again?

   Thanks Geo Swan (talk) 19:16, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

   Sorry that I did not use "see talk" for the above discussion, and got sloppy about edit summaries. My first related to this section was: "Make factual - Sexual harassment complaint - delete excess on Gordon". That's why I thought it was useful to summarize the facts - it was investigated, some people supported her, his complaint as to sexual harrassment was not upheld.Parkwells (talk) 02:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Concern about coverage of controversy

Wikipedia should not devolve to the journalistic "he said, she said". The sexual harassment complaint is long over and should be summarized. Quotes related to it are not significant enough to be put into boxes. The fact that she was supported can be based on cited sources; quotes aren't needed. It's an encyclopedia. The article is missing more assessment and recognition of her achievements, some of which is hidden in quotes, hardly covered in the body of the article. Her work cannot be addressed by saying: this article discussed this, this article discussed that, which is drawing from the primary sources of her work. This is the difficulty of writing about a contemporary figure. Parkwells (talk) 16:27, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Header title

The header for the "Sexual harassment complaint" section had been "Attempt to discredit her work at Guantanamo". That may be what an editor thought Gordon was up to, but that slant was not in the cited sources and thus is an editor's POV.Parkwells (talk) 03:04, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Reasoning for deletion

An edit summary said that the following was removed because of "gratuitous derogatory comment." While I agree there was too much on the case, this does not appear to fit that description: <<The Miami Herald also reported that many of Rosenberg's colleagues and former interview subjects had contacted the paper to support her, including military officers, including flag officers. It quoted an email from Gordon's superior, Colonel David Lapan, who wrote, "From the beginning, we have considered this a personnel matter, and it's unfortunate that it has become a news story." Gordon has retired from the Navy.>> Parkwells (talk) 20:19, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

• I had the same thoughts. Hobit (talk) 05:35, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

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