Talk:Canadian National Vimy Memorial/GA1

GA Review

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Hello, I'll be reviewing this article for possible GA status. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 16:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm placing the article on hold to allow contributors time to address my concerns. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 01:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Writing and formatting

• The article could use a few more wikilinks, but linking the same term multiple times should be avoided done

• removed: double wikilinks for: Walter Seymour Allward, 24th British Division, I Corps, Arras, France, Vimy, Commonwealth War Graves Commission

• There's still a few. A quick glance finds Canadian Corps, Lebrun, and King Edward VIII, but there may be others.

• removed:Queen Elizabeth II

• inserted: wikilink for 1,2,3 and 4th Canadian Divisions, field gun, American Civil War

• "culminating at an elevation of 145 metres (480 ft) or 60 metres (200 ft) above the Douai Plains" - I'm assuming this means the site is 145m above sea level? Should clarify done.
• Be consistent in use of both Canadian/British spelling review

Believe I caught them all but would like a second review to be certain. --Labattblueboy (talk) 01:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Missed a few "meters", "kilometers" and "counterattacks". Nikkimaria (talk) 02:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

completed, don't think there are any more holdouts. --Labattblueboy (talk) 04:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

• European date conventions. Note that a comma is not used between month and year (ie. 1 Jan 2009, not 1 Jan, 2009)

corrected 3 errors, done.

Should also fix the couple that are in the references.

did not previously notice those. --Labattblueboy (talk) 04:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

• Given that the established standard measurement for this article is metric, this should come first in conversions

1. The unit of measurement used is based upon whatever form was used in the source. These are generally imperial as that was the unit of measure in Canada till the 1970s.
2. Metric is the standard for the article and all numbers are either metric or converted into metric. To clarify this I have removed converts from metric into imperial.
3. I don't know of a feature in the convert template that allows for them to be flipped around.

• "posthumously awarded the Victoria Corss" - spelling done.
• Need general copyedit for grammar and clarity

Examples and greater clarification needed in this area --Labattblueboy (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

• "under the understanding" - example of awkward wording
• missing commas in some places, a few other punctuation errors
• "and y 2:00 pm" - ?
• "decided that the Allward’s" - example of grammatical error

A good read to check for flow and grammar should fix most of these issues, and they have been improved by your edits so far. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:48, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Just finished a copy edit. There are a couple instances of passive text that can't be helped but beyond that appears to be in good shape. Have a quick review and lets see if we can get this one out of the way. --Labattblueboy (talk) 19:05, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

• Be consistent in whether using pm or p.m or p.m. (and for a(.)m(.))

standardized as am and pm. Only found one instance of the error. done --Labattblueboy (talk) 00:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

• Explain what "the Pimple" is done in Battle of Vimy Ridge section
• Eliminate incomplete sentences

examples needed in this area --Labattblueboy (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

• "His idea for the memorial having apparently been inspired by a wartime dream that he had" - here, changing the verb tense will make it a complete sentence. There were a few occurrences of this type of error.

• Lead says memorial is specifically for those dead at Vimy (and in addition those dead in France with no known grave), while the infobox says in general WWI Canadians dead in France. Also, was anyone missing and presumed dead at Vimy? Should be mentioned with casualties in Battle of Vimy Ridge section

1. Clarified role. Serves principally as a national memorial not battle memorial.
2. Yes, there are those with unknown graves from the battle. I haven't see sources however for the number involved in the battle and now commemorated on the memorial. However, they would be included in the battle casualty figures as killed normally included missing and presumed dead.--Labattblueboy (talk) 04:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

• Per WP:MoS, "single-digit whole numbers from zero to nine are spelled out in words" done.
• You differentiate "architects, designers, sculptors and artists", but then say "commissioned each artist" - maybe replace the second "artist" with "finalist" done.
• "United States Civil War" -> "American Civil War" done.
• Tonnes needs convert template

Not needed. Only figures in non-metric units of measure are being converted. --Labattblueboy (talk) 04:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

• "Brown Line" not mentioned in text in Battle of Vimy Ridge section done.

Accuracy and verifiability

• The article says that Vimy was the first time that all four divisions of the Expeditionary Force fought together; the text says the Corps. Which is correct? corrected and cited
• Citations needed for: completed

• At approximately 7 kilometres (4.3 mi) in length and culminating at an elevation of 145 metres (480 ft) or 60 metres (200 ft) above the Douai Plains, the ridge provides a natural unobstructed view for tens of kilometres in all directions.cited
• Temporary Lieutenant Richard Basil Brandram Jones was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross for his ultimately unsuccessful defence of the Broadmarsh Crater cited
• For the first time all four Canadian divisions were assembled to participate in a battle together cited
• Four Victoria Crosses, the highest military decoration awarded to British and Commonwealth forces for valour, were awarded to members of the Canadian Corps cited
• interested parties submitting 160 design drawings to the jury for consideration cited.
• His idea for the memorial having apparently been inspired by a wartime dream that he had cited.
• Construction of the memorial commenced in 1925 and took eleven years cited.
• the Government of Canada made a special Vimy passport available to pilgrims, without cost cited.
• The site is the largest site dedicated to the memory of the Canadians killed during the First World War removed
• The standing man is supposed to represent Canada’s sympathy for the oppressed cited.
• symbolize the unity and sacrifice of both countries cited.
• the most senior figures representing Justice and Peace partially cited, still need to cite term Chorus.--Labattblueboy (talk) 02:11, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
• Carved on the walls of the monument are the names of 11,285 Canadians who were killed in France and whose final resting place is unknown cited

• Sheldon, Duffy, Simkins are in Footnotes but not in References. done
• Rose is in References, but there's no Rose & Nathanail done

The rose ref. is actually Rose & Nathanail, error in ref. corrected.

• Some of the links from Footnotes to References are not working done

corrected Turner error, all refs now link.

• All web references should have access dates (and author/publisher where available) done

1. publisher added where it was previously missing.
2. inserted accessdate for citations linking to urls. Links also verified and where needed corrected.

• Format issue with final few Footnotes done
• There are two Nicholson references, but some of the entries in notes have no dates done
• Student theses aren't the best sources, and should be avoided wherever possible

I would normally fully agree however this paper has been cited in academically reviewed books by leading authors in the field, including; Art or memorial?: the forgotten history of Canada's war art by Dr. Laura Brandon (a historian at Canadian War Museum) and Death so noble: memory, meaning, and the First World War by Jonathan Franklin William Vance. It's even received some H-net notation[1] even though it's over 10 years old.--Labattblueboy (talk) 03:53, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

• If only 3 memorial sites were awarded in Belgium, why are there 4 in the template at the bottom?

Canada was awarded 3 in Belgium. The fourth, the Menin Gate memorial, is a British/Commonwealth memorial to commemorate the missing killed in Belgium. Canadian soldiers killed in Belgium are commemorated there although Canada had no involvement in its construction.--Labattblueboy (talk) 01:44, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Broad

No issues noted

Neutrality

• Some problems with WP:WTA - certain words introduce an editorial bias to the article and should be avoided review needed

Please review and let me know if there are any further examples that need to be addressed.--Labattblueboy (talk) 05:47, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• "government was not however in the position to" - this isn't so much neutrality as a grammar issue, so "however" may be included in a carefully modified sentence
• "In a clear reference to the famous poem" - "clear" is editorializing here, unless it's a direct quote

I'll let you make the call on this one. Bradon p. 13, Macintyre p. 155 and the War Museum website all note the sculpture as being a rather obvious reference to the poem's last stanza. "Clearly" is normally a WTA bur in this case I don't really see what other word to use given its a rather obvious reference.--Labattblueboy (talk) 19:19, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

In that case, your best option would probably be either to quote one of those sources directly, or say at the end of the sentence ", a reference to...", as both "clear" and "famous" are a bit problematic in this context Done

Beyond those, the only remaining problem is some grammatical errors. Once these issues are addressed, I will be happy to promote the article. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I will look at finishing off the grammar this weekend. --Labattblueboy (talk) 19:19, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Stability

No issues noted

Images

• Maybe point out the chosen design in the group of submissions?

It's way in the background and you can barely even see it when the image is expanded to full. An image of the model exists in the memorial section of the article. --Labattblueboy (talk) 00:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

• Just out of curiosity, why are all the gallery images in black and white except one (or maybe two, can't tell)?

One user uploaded a number of very good images of sections of the memorial in black and white. the black and white images didn't really do with those that were in colour. I did apparently forget to convert [Vimy Memorial - Spirit of Sacrifice figure.jpg] into black and white. I can certainly do so if you believe it should be consistent. --Labattblueboy (talk) 00:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

• WP:ALT covered for all images. --Labattblueboy (talk) 00:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)