Talk:Caboclo

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This term is dated

The term "caboclo" today is about as scientific as "hill-billy" and should be discarded. Recent anthropological literature comes down hard on this usage. --Wloveral (talk) 00:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Beg to differ

The term has a strong meaning in brazillian and south american culture, as it clearly states the mixture of natives with white, unlike the "hill Billy" that is usually a derogatory to the white americans living in the woods.

The importance of this term is so relevant, as it is even featured in religions as umbanda and condomble, to define such mixture or to relate to the native warriors with white blood or not.

Also figuring in poetry (Goncalves Dias, for instance) and operas O Guarani, it represents the status of a whole culture in south america. 12 of July 2009.

For instance, many of the Bandeiras, an important movement in brazillian/portuguese history were composed of such people, and they were the ones usually who managed to expell the english, french and dutch from south american territories, limiting them to the small colonies on the region that they only achieved through the use of diplomacy as all their military campaigns failed in south america. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordlicious (talk • contribs) 08:39, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Term fell in disuse

The term caboclo fell into disuse, at least in the general population. I can't comment its use amongst followers of Afrobrazilian religions as it falls outside my sphere of knowledge, as for its usage in 19th century literature, that's not an accurate description of how the term is used today. The term might be used in some parts of Brazil but its far from an ubiquitous.

In one last note, the term "pardo" came to substitute every other term to describe people with complexions in the range between white and black, of course what is "white" and "black" changes from place to place inside the country. In some regions, the similar, maybe related, term "caboco" is used, but it has nothing to do with what a person looks like, rather it's a derogatory term for the figure of a low income uneducated rural worker, used against people who fit in some of the stereotypes, which can include anything from certain patterns of speech, rudeness, interest in Brazilian country music "sertanejo", farm animals and things like "vaquejadas", regardless of ethnicity or skin tone. 177.47.49.23 (talk) 20:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge discussion

I suggest that Mameluco be merged here. They are synonyms in Portuguese in this specific acception of race. Also, pt:Mameluco is related to English Mamluk, not to the article Mameluco. Capmo (talk) 19:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I must dissent

Mameluco is used to define natives with africans AND the slave descendants who took over in Egypt what also makes sense, as they would be a mixture of natives and africans on these regions as well, as the mameluks in africa were also former slaves. Meanwhile the caboclos were the offspring between free natives married with europeans, and had a completely different status on the colonies.

Recently and due to this recent apparent academic misunderstanding, the representant of the caboclo and ribeirinhos in the northern states of Brazil went to congress to speak on behalf of this, as their lands were being given also to african descendants who never been on the region, because of this misinterpretation.

The difference in the terms is clear, there is no real doubt. 12 of july of 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordlicious (talk • contribs) 08:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mameluco and caboclo are different

My english is not good, sorry Mama Mia. I anit italia I think this is the most import chapter in the brazilian history.

Mameluco, caboclo and índio (Amerindian) are cultural references, not racial. They may be pure native blood or not.

Índio is anyone, even mixed with black or white, educated in native tribes. Just the tribe says if is índio.

Mamelucos were people mainly of Pauslistânia (a big region, in Minas Gerais, Mato Grosso e Gioás , under the influence of São Paulo) mixed with white or pure native blood christianized by the Jesuit project of Manuel da Nóbrega and José de Anchieta, talking Língua Geral. This was a Lingua Franca of Tupi language family, diasystemic with all the others Tupi languages used over almost all country, collected in dictionary and grammar by Anchieta to priests use to educate the native child. This child, mixed or not, became mamelucos, in São Paulo and Northeast Brazil. They work with the European, but the mind was of a native, knowing the land, the people, how to survive in the ambient, and could persuade native tribes. This is the way the Portuguese land grew so fast, even in Amazonia, where Spanish soldiers have been many times defeated by environment. Few Portuguese talking Língua Geral, with mamelucos talking a little of Portuguese, and indigenous, could do all the job, and they did.

Nóbrega and Anchieta did a brilliant work, better than Spanish Jesuits in missions of Paraguay and Argentina. They reach their goal avoiding the mass slavery of natives, in much larger scale, on all the present coastline and in much inner Brazil. Tragically this mamelucos have been used to enslave Spanish missions. When expelled the Jesuits in 1759 the Língua Geral had been forbid with jail penalty, and the mamelucos disappeared with the language. The word does not refer anything actual today.

Caboclo may be of any mix, or totally black, or totally white, or “non-Indian” pure Amerindian breed. Just need some cultural heritage of the original people of the land. The word is used too in Brazilian Africans religions. Means the people of country, despite the blood, as Spanish criollo or old Portuguese crioulo, to horses, dogs, pigs and other animals, cimarrones, alzados (Spanish) or chimarrões, alçados (Portuguese), autochthonous not original of the land, as American mustang and Australian dromedary. Hillbilly means caipira, an abandoned European, quite different than a North-American Hopi speaking english at a cellphone or brazilian caboclos using Linux in Amazonia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olivemarco (talk • contribs) 18:52, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mameluco and caboclo means the exact same thing in Brazil: someone who is descendant of Indians and European whites. In the 19th century, however, caboclo usually meant the "civilized" (that is, assimilated) Indian, but nowadays means their descendants who mixed with whites. Of course that mameluco also means Mamluk. --Lecen (talk) 12:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]