Talk:Bengal cat

Markings

I noticed that someone posted a head-on picture of the Bengal Domestic Cat, but I was hoping a couple more pictures could be posted, preferably of the cat's side, where the leopard-like spots ought to be more noticeable. [Added representative photo; no longer an issue. Seduisant 16:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)]

We have some cats whose grandparents were ordinary domestic 'tigerish' tabby cats (with vertical or slanted stripes), but for some reason two generations down the line, the stripes are segmented, looking a lot like the spots of a leopard.

Is the Bengal "leopard-spotted" domestic cat really a mix with a wild cousin? Can't the leopard spots occur naturally, as a result of natural variation? From the appearances of our own cats (triplets, all male), the spots that are so highly valued, appear to be the result of the stripes breaking down and becoming intermittent.

Do Bengal domesticated cats uniformly have a dark stripe emanating from the outer corner of each eye, sweeping back along the side of the head, and disassociating itself into irregular patterns of spots?

• • • maybe a few answers ***

they can be viscous and hurtful to others....WILD cats that dont have fears [This is nonsense, but I'll leave it in since this is "an encyclopedia anyone can edit," including the misinformed. First off, I think you mean vicious, as no cat of my acquaintance has ever evidenced viscosity, unless you mean "extreme sleekness." They are not hurtful to others, they're not WILD, and they are afraid of the same things other cats are. You quite obviously don't share space with a Bengal. If you don't like the breed, fine, but there's no point spreading falsehood around...I've previously removed similar rantings from the article. Back to reality...] Seduisant 20:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC) Some domestic tabbys, when correctly bred (intentionally or otherwise) do devolve into a more spotted appearance. But to those that know the Bengal it's real easy to tell them apart.

The Ocicat is a completely domestic cat with spots, much like a Bengal.

Bengals are indeed a cross between the Asian Leopard and domestic cats. That can be verified genetically since the Asian Leopard has two fewer genes than the domestic cat. Bengals must be four generations removed from the wild (or bred down to 8% to 12% "wild" blood) before they are considered "domestic."

To be conforming a Bengal does have to have the stripes you mention about the eyes. It's called "mascara." One stripe must start at the exact upper corner of the eye, and the another generally extends below. Just around the eye, between the stripes (on the "body side") should be a dark patch. They should almost join on the side of the face, and continue to just beyond the ears. Ideally, the Bengal will also have two dark upward-going "slashes" above each eye.

Other Bengal marking tips (to tell them from the tabby's). They should have (at least) four distinct stripes across and down the back of their head, between the ears. Their tail tip is always black, or dark, and they should have at least seven distinct striped bands on their tail.

Hope this helps!

May be confusing to some readers...

ALC is an acronym for Asian Leopard Cat.F2 is a second generation breeding i.e. 2 breedings away from original breeding.SBT is the code used by TICA to anote a breed record The average reader may not be able to follow with the terms such as F2, SBT, and ALC. Perhaps someone should clear it up a bit more? Abby724 21:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The first instance I came across of "ALC", I had to dart around the article looking for an explanation. Thanks, Wordreader (talk) 19:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

The acronym ALC is defined in the first sentence of the article. Seems clear enough. --Seduisant (talk) 02:31, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

The acronym ALC is defined in the first sentence of the article. = Informative and appreciated.

Seems clear enough. = A negative implication of...something or other...and is unappreciated. --- Wordreader (talk) 22:00, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Who keeps adding Bengals as pets?

I deleted that section because its not nesscesary for it, bengal cats don't live in the wild & the bengal cat was breeded to be a pet!! and the section went against what it said in the first 2 sections by saying that the bengal cat can't really interact with humans because of their agressivness.

Please sign your posts using four tildes (~). Seduisant 18:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

External Links Section

The Wikipedia [content policy] "What Wikipedia is not" seems to make clear that most of the links in this section don't belong in the article. I don't dislike any of these links at all, and I'm not opposed to Bengal rescue or Bengal forums, either - they're just not encyclopedic content. All this material can easily be located with a simple Google search. Seduisant (talk) 21:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The International Bengal Cat Society

The link provided for this does not appear to be working at present. Ought it to be removed? GibCat (talk) 00:27, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Fixed the link. --Seduisant (talk) 03:29, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Image

Can someone create a nice looking image in the mold of this>[Image:http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1885/93828337gz0.png] for the artcle? And one for the savannah cat as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.112 (talk) 13:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The image of the cat with the "turquoise" eyes has been very obviously Photoshopped. This eye color does not occur - ever. This may or may not even be a Bengal; if it is, the editing of the image is so blatant as to make the image unusable. I would remove it and substitute a more realistic photo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.7.115.225 (talk) 20:10, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I used to have a rufous Bengal with turquoise eyes. The first time I saw him I was just bowled over by his eyes - beautiful! Evelyn, London, 14 April 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.130.93 (talk) 23:40, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

"Indian Mau", Margay cat, Bristol hybrid

• Someone please explain what is "Indian Mau". This name has been used in the History section.
• I've read slavic-language sources that some Bengal lineages have Margay cats/Bristol hybrid in their pedigrees. Can anyone knowledgeable refer to that?78.131.137.50 (talk) 10:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

There is mention of both "Indian Maus" and the Bristol hybrid in this reference: http://www.bengalclassifieds.com/bengal-cat-education-history.htm

I am afraid to cite these things in the article since these claims seem vague and unsubstantiated. Personally, I think such information should be removed from the article since it is confusing and not well supported, but I am hoping to find some more reliable sources to clarify things. --Kpstewart (talk) 18:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Article needs balance of perspectives

One thing that this article is missing is a balanced perspective of the reasonings why Bengals are good or bad housepets. Previously, the article contained sentences that seemed to belittle the Cat Fanciers' Association for disallowing registry of Bengals. I have tried to rewrite those sentances, but it remains that there is little mention/citation of the reasons why Bengals are not accpeted --their "wild" nature and possible behavioral issues. This website[1] mentions some "incident" at a CFA cat show as being a reason for excluding Bengals from show, but I haven't been able to find a better source.

This article is sorely lacking a "Discription" section. When one is created, there should include both possitives and negatives about the behavior of these cats. --Kpstewart (talk) 18:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Bengals have no more behavioral issues than any other cat, and less than many. Seriously, they're just housecats with spots. Large, active, and highly intelligent housecats with spots.

As I understand it, the CFA exclusion is due to their hybrid nature, which in the CFA's view disallows them from being considered purebreds (as some percentage of their ancestry is not a domestic cat), not to any undocumented "incident" with an F1. If every breed that had ever had a member rip a piece off of a show judge was denied registration, there would be very few pedigreed cats at all. 66.92.68.103 (talk) 03:50, 2 May 2010 (UTC) too lazy to log in

Several generations in, yes they are essentially just housecats with spots. But like wolf-dogs, not all bengals are that far removed from their wild ancestors. Regardless of whether Bengals are "just as tame as any other cat", there are concerns relating to the breed that are at present ignored by the article, some of which are more important than their show status, such as health problems resulting from their hybridization. Big Cat Rescue has an article on Bengal Cats which might provide some information. I'm a bit disappointed the article doesn't address any of this yet. 75.201.76.174 (talk) 00:32, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I was also wondering about potential health problems that are unique to this animal, as my cat seems to have plenty. I found a blog post by pictures-of-cats.org that may be an additional starting point for further research on these issues. --KMSchmidt (talk) 16:49, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

A TV show on Animal Planet called My Cat From Hell * has an episode that concerns a cat they call a Bengal, named City the Kitty. City doesn't look like the photos in this article, but I guess there's a wide variation in appearances. Perhaps he's not whatever is considered to be a "pure breed" Bengal. The behaviorist most definitely talks about the Bengal cat having a very high energy and assertiveness level. The cat is filmed attacking one of his owners by literally lunging 4+ feet into the air against her body in an extremely aggressive manner, claws and teeth flying. City also frequently attacked the owners existing cat. He conjectures that City the Kitty, a stray, was homeless on the streets because his previous owners couldn't handle his behaviors.

He brought the owners a big hamster wheel manufactured expressly for Bengals and said this is one type of cat that really needs to be walked on a leash to dispel energy (he said their normal range would be about 6 square city blocks). The behaviorist taught the owners how to play with the cat and to walk him. Happily, there was a very happy ending for City. He stopped attacking his owner and her other cat.

The video is 42:40 long and is named "Mad Max" on the website (there's a brief trailer for the show in the beginning as well as another episode in the back half of the video about a cat named Mad Max): http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/my-cat-from-hell/videos/mad-max.htm

• [<-- This is supposed to be an asterisks.] This is stupid name for the show, I freely admit it. The Animal Planet show on dog behavior is called a much more positive "Dog Whisperer", but this name feeds into stereotypical ways of thinking about cats. Pity. Wordreader (talk) 20:29, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

The new season of My Cat From Hell started tonight: it's about another attack Bengal, named Mufasa. (Don't get me wrong; the other episodes are about troubled cats of other varieties.) This time the behaviorist introduced an indoor cat agility course. The video isn't online yet, of course. Look for it: http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/my-cat-from-hell/videos/whats-in-store.htm . At the least, the video can act as an external link for people to further see what the cats look like. Yours, Wordreader (talk) 00:26, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Here's the Mufasa bengal cat episode: http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/my-cat-from-hell/videos/cat-fight.htm . That Animal Planet site is hard to navigate, for me, anyway! Wordreader (talk) 23:54, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Big edit

I just made quite a few changes. I did give this some thought, so please look carefully at the result before reverting anything. Snori (talk) 06:11, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Defra

Defra is not an agency, it is the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, that is, a UK government department87.194.35.234 (talk) 18:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC) It depends on terminology.In the U.S. it could be described as an AGENCY e.g.DEA,CIA etc.Here in the UK it is regerded as 'A Department' as in a Department associated with the British government.cliffieb — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cliffieb (talk • contribs) 14:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Hybrid Cat

Since Bengal Cats were bred from a wild species of cat with the domestic tabby cat that is another species to make the Bengal breed it would be nice to breed other breeds this way and make hybrids of the Sand Cat and Geoffroy's cat and other species to make docile versions of this cat for pets. Bobcat and Lynx. I wonder what a hybird would look like? Domesticating animals is easy. All you have to do is treat your animals with love. Best to only mate the ones that are friendly. 108.81.134.236 (talk) 08:26, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

How would you mate a domestic cat with e.g. Bobcat/Lynx other than through artificial insemination?This in itself is an unnatural procedure for a wild animal.Would it be justified as necessary or would it just be satisfying mans need to meddle with nature for the want of creating something that does not exsist already? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cliffieb (talk • contribs) 14:35, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Feline Leukemia

I think that feline leukemia, like most cancers in humans and domestic animals, and most other diseases in western societies, is a creation of human activities, specifically human selections of cats for breeding, and human choices in the diets/lifestyles/environments of domestic cats. So when citing the premise of scientific research, e.g. to breed immunity to feline leukemia, I think we should be careful not to legitimize a scientific pursuit, or any other type of pursuit, that is significantly misguided. The proper reaction to disease created by human activities is to terminate the human activities that create disease. Misguidance has impacts. Shall we start to consider these at some point, in the way we report? Rtdrury (talk) 14:15, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

What you think, however, does not dictate reality.

Feline leukemia, for example, is transmitted by a virus -- a retrovirus, to be exact, which is one reason why it's sometimes called "AIDS for cats." That virus was not created by any human activity. It's probably been around as long as there have been cats, which is several times longer than there have been behaviorally modern humans (and it probably originated in rodents). That virus is certainly not going to go away if we "terminate the human activities" you seem to blame for creating it, even if they did (which they didn't) unless you're proposing that we eradicate every member of the entire genus, or several related genera. Also, why do you specify western societies? Do you think that eastern societies have no diseases? Do you think wild animals do not? And our ancestors, before modern scientific activity, had none? If so, you're wrong; diseases (and cancer) have been documented through written records as far back as there have been written records, and through archaeological evidence for thousands of years before that. There are signs of cancer in the fossils of dinosaurs. Surely you're not going to say that was caused by human activity millions of years before humans (or any mammal bigger than a mouse) existed? Worldwalker (talk) 18:52, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Doubt on the origin of Bengal Cat

Hello All,

This is my first time ever on editing or participating in a discussion over a topic on Wikipedia.

One major concern over the Bengal cat is the origin. It seems that this cat might actually not have originated in America or through a cross between a wild cat and a domesticated cat.

The Bengal cat is actually a wild cat found in the state West Bengal in India. I am not a cat expert but I have actually seen this cat in the wild during my stay in West Bengal. The cat is originally a wild fishing cat and is also the state animal of the state (West Bengal). One can look the information up on google by looking for "wild cat in Bengal". It seems pretty obvious where the name has come from.

I really hope that the information about the origin of the cat can be modified/changed soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurshb (talk • contribs) 07:34, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Did you actually read the article? The wild cat found in India (and further) is the Asian leopard cat, Prionailurus bengalensis. The Bengal cat breed was developed by cross-breeding those wild cats with the domestic ones, under controlled conditions and with a generation-by-generation pedigree; there is no doubt of any kind where the breed arose, when, and by whom. PS: It is possible, maybe even likely, that there are feral cross-breed cats of the same general genetic mix running around in India, the result of (probably) male Asian leopard cats mating with female housecats in heat. But we have no evidence of this, while we do have evidence against the idea that they had anything to do with the establishment of the standardized Bengal breed.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  12:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Speaking of the origin of bengal cats, it appears there is an error in the citation #6 https://www.basepaws.com/blog/bengal-cat-breed/ stating that Dr. Willard Centerwall did his research at Loyola University, when it was actually Loma Linda University. Most sources I have read state Loma Linda University, where Dr. Centerwall was a pediatrics and genetics professor. See: http://www.bengalsillustrated.com/bengal-cat-history/ and https://www.bengalcats.co/bengal-cats-origins-centerwall-legacy/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.240.93.177 (talk) 19:36, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Greg and Elizabeth Kent

Already an uncited source but edited and merged into one paragrapgh. "Doctors Greg and Elizabeth Kent, who were crossing their Egyptian Maus to their Asian Leopard cat Baghara Kahn. While many breeders worked together to get the breed off the ground, it was Jean Mill who worked to get them accepted as a registered breed through TICA and began to show them around the world." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reyn1511 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Nice-if we can get a good source for that into we can add! Lubbad85 (talk) 20:29, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps a source in this book: Here

Bengal Cat infobox photo used over and over during a ten year period

There is no edit war here. It is a content dispute about what picture belongs at the top of the article. No one has ever bothered to try to establish consensus of what picture should be on the article. A discussion needs to start here and this is not the way to start the discussion. It needs to be a neutral discussion that doesn't accuse someone of violating rules. Discuss the content not the editor. ~ GB fan 11:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

3TTT5 has been posting the same photo into the infobox on the Bengal cat going back 10 years. In the history of the page, every time the photo is updated this user replaces it with the photo 3TTT5 desires. After I reverted the last attempt by 3TTT5, another user reverted the edit using the same photo and language that 3TTT5 prefers: the photo change over time Diffs of the user's reverts: from user 3TTT5 [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] and same edit and language from 108.189.2.131 [10] Lubbad85 (talk) 22:21, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. I thought reverting the photo for ten years was extreme. In addition I suspected a sockpuppet account. This talk page does not seem to get much participation, and I do not want to be in an edit war over this photo, so I was seeking guidance. Thank you for your opinion on the matter. Lubbad85 (talk) 17:45, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

If you are going to accuse someone of being a Sockpuppet the proper place to do it is at WP:SPI with evidence to support it. You can not just go around saying you think someone is a sockpuppet without providing evidence. ~ GB fan 19:41, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, for your guidance and advice. I will attempt to get a consensus here. Lubbad85 (talk) 22:08, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Do Editors Here Have an opinion about the photos we should use?

Do any editors have an opinion or a photo they would like to see in the infobox? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lubbad85 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Odd, I thought I commented earlier but it vanished... anyway, I think the current photo (Paintedcats Red Star standing.jpg) is the better choice, with the cat being the sole object of focus. The older photo (Bangie the Bengal Cat.jpg) is busy and cluttered, with a statue and brightly colored flowers, and the cat is kind of lost in the middle of it. I recommend using Paintedcats Red Star standing.jpg in the infobox. Schazjmd (talk) 22:27, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Ditto, and for the same reasons. - Snori (talk) 03:57, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree - however if there is a new photo that represents bengals, (perhaps not the one that has been used over and over for a decade) I am open to it.

Lubbad85 (talk) 14:33, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

• There are nearly 200 images in Commons:Category:Bengal cat, surely one or more of them would be suitable. – Athaenara ✉ 15:28, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

I think the original photo "Bangie the Bengal Cat" is better. This photo has survived the test of time and it is a very popular photo all over the internet. The other photo "Paintedcats Red Star standing" looks staged. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:9001:101:6000:3868:a47:2e9a:5171 (talk) 16:00, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

We understand that is the one you prefer. Wikipedia works on consensus. The consensus at this point is to use the other one. You need to accept the fact that the consensus is against you and stop trying to force your preferred version. ~ GB fan 01:39, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Jean Mill up for WP:AFD

Speaking of breeder bios.

• Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
• Jean Mill (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs|google) AfD discussion

Seems like there is plenty notable to me. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:23, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Unreliable junk removed

I have finally gotten around to removing all patently unreliable sources and all the claims that were cited only to them. Some of this material could be restored in some form at some point, e.g. on "glitter" and "clouded" coats, on average size, and on some details of breed-establishment history, but not with such terrible, self-published sources like breeders' promotional/sales sites, and random blog pages by "internet nobodies" who are neither notable nor demonstrably subject-matter experts. This kind of ruthless pruning needs to be done at many more cat and dog breed articles, too.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)