Talk:Battle of the Stuhna River

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Ukraine

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Military history: Medieval

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	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)

Requested move 7 February 2022

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as propose. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a narrow consensus to move. BD2412 T 05:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of the Stugna River → Battle of the Stuhna River – Spelling according to the main article Stuhna: name of a river in Ukraine, spelled according to standard Ukrainian romanization per WP:UKR. The title term “battle of the Stugna River” does not occur in the only source cited here;[1] it does refer to the river in Ukraine by the Russian or Old East Slavic-derived “the Stugna” and “the Stugna River,” but it is a 1967 book, demonstrating its dated WP:POV language with the title referring to Kyivan Rus as “Medieval Russia.”

The current title is not a WP:COMMONNAME, as it seems to appear in only a single source found in Google Scholar[2] and the term returns only 27 results in Google Advanced Book Search (per WP:GOOG),[3] but having loaded all of them I can only find the phrase in a single one (many can’t be searched inside). —Michael Z. 19:15, 7 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:42, 14 February 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. Mike Cline (talk) 13:32, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Battle is historical, and recorded as "Stugna River" in English sources. We don't update spellings of historical battles to modern versions (e.g. Battle of Trebia, not Trebbia). Walrasiad (talk) 08:44, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can you show some evidence, since that contradicts my findings? (And I find over 4,000 book results for battle of the Trebbia.) —Michael Z. 19:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination. The battle in question took place nearly a thousand years ago on the territory of what is now Ukraine and there is no indication that any transliteration of the battle name into English is predominant. Therefore, unlike cases where arguments may be made for Russian transliteration of battle names from recent history (one, two or even three hundred years ago), this battle name should be transliterated in English using the Ukrainian form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:11, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom--RicardoNixon97 (talk) 09:17, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment Nom should notify relevant projects if not already done to generate more discussion. FYI This NGRAM is interesting. Mike Cline (talk) 13:35, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Ukraine has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 21:13, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.