Talk:Battle of Horseshoe Bend

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Military history: North America / United States / Napoleonic era

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Ensured that the article is: within project scope, tagged for task forces, and assessed for class.

The article would benefit from: in-text citations. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1814

I was just curious to know why 1814 exists in the title of this engagement? Was there another Battle of Horseshoe Bend? A reply would be appreciated, thank you.--Az81964444 (talk) 23:18, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There was. See: Battle of Horseshoe Bend. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 22:12, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:Battle of Horseshoe Bend.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Sam Houston?

Sam Houston fought in this battle, but was he an officer? Bms4880 (talk) 19:42, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Obsolete historical legends

Stopping by just after the bicentennial of this battle, I'm disappointed to find so much misinformation in this article. Will revise as time permits, but for now:

The Creek War was not a war between Upper and Lower Creeks. The Red Sticks were not allies of the British and Spanish. (The Spanish remained neutral in the War of 1812.) The Creek War was a civil war between disaffected Red Stick rebels and the Creek National Council. Americans attacked the Red Sticks out of fear that they would get British support, and in response to rumors that they had already done so. Militia from Mississippi Territory, Tennessee, and Georgia invaded the Creek Nation several times, aided by Choctaw and Cherokee volunteers.

Andrew Jackson led the campaign that culminated at the Horseshoe. This battle has traditionally been treated as the end of the Creek War, but major conflicts continued, and many Creek rebels migrated to the Spanish Florida provinces, where they joined the Seminoles in resisting Jackson's invasion of West Florida. Horsehoe Bend vaulted Jackson to national fame. It is thought to be the costliest battle in the history of U.S. Indian wars, in terms of the number of native lives lost.

Good sources: Braund (2012), ed., Tohopeka: Rethinking the Creek War and the War of 1812. — Waselkov (2006), A Conquering Spirit: Fort Mims and the Redstick War of 1813-1814 — Martin (1991), Sacred Revolt: The Muskogees' Struggle for a New World — Halbert and Ball (1895), The Creek War of 1813 and 1814. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 23:08, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alarob believes the Red Sticks were NOT allies of the British and Spanish. well no. Let's quote Bruce Johansen and Barry Pritzer (2007). Encyclopedia of American Indian History. ABC-CLIO. p. 247. ISBN 9781851098187. "The British and the Red Stick Creeks sought an ally in each other. The British provided supplies to the Red Stick majority to help them defeat the United States and its Creek allies." (and the Spanish governor also provided military supplies.) Rjensen (talk) 02:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are citing an encyclopedia entry that draws on outdated information; for example, 19th-century histories often state that the British and Spanish were aiding the Creek rebels, but no supporting evidence is provided except rumors among settlers on the Creek frontier. In the 200 years since, no evidence of British aid has been found until after the Battle of Horseshoe Bend, when a British officer was dispatched with covert aid for Indian and black (formerly enslaved) rebels in West Florida (one example of the continuity between the Redstick War and the First Seminole War).

As for Spanish aid, frontier rumors presumed a conspiracy between the British enemy and the neutral Spanish. Spain (besides fighting a French invasion at home) was concerned with maintaining neutrality in the War of 1812 while also bracing for an expected U.S. attack on Pensacola, like the 1812 U.S. annexation of Mobile. There were no resources to spare for the defense of the West Florida colony, esp. if it meant risking war with the United States. When Andrew Jackson occupied Pensacola in 1814, he faced token resistance.

The Redstick Creeks did receive some Spanish aid in July 1813 after a series of tense meetings between a Creek delegation and the commandant of Pensacola. West Florida gave gunpowder, lead, and non-military supplies to the Creeks, who initially rejected the gift as insultingly insufficient; they wanted guns but had to settle for powder and lead. As they returned north from Pensacola with the supplies, American militia attacked them, and the Battle of Burnt Corn ensued.

Older histories quote two or three depositions given by prominent frontiersmen (or “Indian countrymen”) that are mutually contradictory and inconsistent with internal Spanish records. These depositions and related letters are the only source, other than unsourced rumors, for claims that the Spanish were allied with the Creek rebels and the British against the United States. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 19:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Battle of Horseshoe Bend/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

the errors and misinterpretations in this page are too many to mention.

if you are interested in this battle, Halbert & Ball's "Creek War of 1813-14" is posted in its entirety online. http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cmamcrk4/hbtoc.html

if you are interested in a detailed look inside the Muscogee reaction to federal policy, Joel Martin's "Sacred Revolt" is a good beginning point.

Last edited at 14:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 09:11, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 12 October 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Battle of Horseshoe Bend. SilkTork (talk) 09:24, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Horseshoe Bend (1814) → Battle of Horseshoe Bend – The Creek War battle seems to be the overwhelming WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. A hatnote can be used to point to Battle of Horseshoe Bend (1832); the existing dab page would be rendered unnecessary with WP:TWODABS. Hog Farm _Talk 06:02, 12 October 2021 (UTC) Hog Farm _Talk 06:02, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Pageviews are overwhelming. Station1 (talk) 18:35, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support succinct and reasonable suggestion. Yuchitown (talk) 15:00, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
Support sounds sensible to me. 85.67.32.244 (talk) 08:49, 15 October 2021 (UTC) Blocked sock. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 05:04, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dubious significance of John Gordon militia spy

This individual features in a vanity press book published in 1906, which is an article from a newspaper stuck into a scrapbook. This is the sole source in use to reference this unknown character.

He's here as well Talk:Battle of Pensacola (1814)#Dubious significance of John Gordon militia spy

This persons James Bond exploits are not appearing in contemporary RS secondary sources. Keith H99 (talk) 18:28, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]