Talk:Bar and bat mitzvah

Scheduling of bar mitzvah

A couple of Judaism 101 questions:
In the film Sixty Six "based on the true life bar mitzvah of director Paul Weiland", the plot hinges on the fact that the protagonist's Bar Mitzvah is scheduled for the same day as the 1966 World Cup, and the resulting conflict in priorities evidenced by his relatives and friends.
AFAIK (and I don't) it's not necessary that a Bar Mitzvah be scheduled on any specific day. Yes? No?
On the other hand, I assume that a Bar Mitvah must be scheduled so as to avoid conflicts with various holidays.(?) -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 22:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

There is a difference between a Bar Mitzvah (on the 13th birthday) and the Bar Mitzvah party. Most prefer to have it on the exact day and on the shabbat following it. Happy138 (talk) 07:29, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

A child becomes bar/bat mitzvah at the set age-- the ritual and/or party is just to recognize the milestone (like how one ages another year regardless of whether one has a birthday party). Also, I was born in January, but because my parents were afraid of a possible snowstorm ruining the day, we set the service and reception for April (and sure enough, it snowed the weekend of my birthday). NewkirkPlaza (talk) 21:40, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

A lot of communities don't strictly do the birthday thing either. Many places don't do them during the summer months, have policies as to whether multiple unrelated kids can have theirs on the same day, and so forth, so a lot of them end up being just at some point during the school year that the teen turns 13. Some places let b'mitzvah students choose the date based on the parsha they resonate with. Someone can probably pull up synagogue websites or blog posts to find citations if we want this added. Triangular (talk) 19:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Capitalization?

Is there any reason why "Bar Mitzvah" and "Bas Mitzvah" are capitalized in the article? Robert K S (talk) 01:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Moreover, is there any reason why every permutation of capitalization of the first and second word seem to be employed in the article? Which is correct? — Quicksilver^{T @} 05:13, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Split proposal

I suggest that this article be split into two, or at least have seperate articles on the Bar and Bat mitzvahs as well as this overview article, because although they share part of their name, and nowadays are seen as different-gender versions of the same thing, they are actually two completely different things, with two very different histories.Althoughh Bar Mitzvahs have been around since ancient times, Bat Mitzvahs were only invented in the last 100 years or so for gender equality.

"In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, many Jewish communities began marking when a girl became a Bat Mitzvah with a special ceremony. This was a break from traditional Jewish custom, which prohibited women from participating directly in religious services. Using the Bar Mitzvah ceremony as a model, Jewish communities began to experiment with developing a similar ceremony for girls. In 1922, Rabbi Mordecai Kaplan performed the first proto-bat mitzvah ceremony in America for his daughter Judith, when she was allowed to read from the Torah when she became a Bat Mitzvah. Although this new found privilege did not match the Bar Mitzvah ceremony in complexity, the event nevertheless marked what is widely considered to be the first modern bat mitzvah in the United States. It triggered the development and evolution of the modern Bat Mitzvah ceremony."

— 

--Coin945 (talk) 03:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

This article just crossed my way and I saw this split proposal. I highly support doing this as the user above suggested. The two articles, Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah, should be separated - exactly like they are in nearly all other Wikipedias. Any comments/opinions? If no resistance is met, I'll do it myself some time this week. -Shalom11111 (talk) 14:50, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't see the need or desirability for this. This article is not large, and the two articles would be largely overlapping, so best keep them together. Debresser (talk) 01:34, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I kind of changed my mind immediately after writing that sentence.. Looking at the article and considering what you said, I agree. Leave as is. Shalom11111 (talk) 20:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Been a year, no consensus, so I removed the tag. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 17:04, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

References

I would suggest strongly that this NOT be split, as reform/recon/cons communities also include and celebrate trans, gender-fluid, nonbinary, etc. teens, and this would just further marginalize and other these teens. You're completely correct of course that the history differs, but the history of a LOT of things was that first only men did it, then women, and more recently we specifically included and affirmed queer/nonbinary folks (with the understanding that before the 1400s-1600s and rampant colonization and Christian missionizing, most of the world was actually much more open with regards to gender expression outside of the binary). Triangular (talk) 20:02, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Capitalization

Should Bar, Bat, and Mitzvah be capped? There are examples of both in the article. Also, on Andrew Breitbart, same issue which brought me here, so I'm still confused. Would someone please fix? Thanks Jim1138 (talk) 18:42, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Opening sentence

Bar Mitzvah (Hebrew: בַּר מִצְוָה‬) and Bat Mitzvah (Hebrew: בַּת מִצְוָה‬) (Ashkenazi pronunciation: "Bas Mitzvah") (plural: B'nai Mitzvah for boys, and B'not Mitzvah – Ashkenazi pronunciation: "B'nos Mitzvah" – for girls) are Jewish coming of age rituals.

Can we do something about this sentence? It hurts my brain to see three separate parenthesized sections in a row, not to mention having them encompass 80% of the sentence. Prinsgezinde (talk) 01:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Capitals and italic

In this article we find bar mitzvah, bar Mitzvah, and Bar Mitzvah. They should be the same. Which is preferred?

Also bar mitzvah is sometimes in italic, and other times not. deisenbe (talk) 11:38, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

According to the rules, it should be written without capitals or italics. Debresser (talk) 16:54, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

This has been raised on numerous occasions, all the way back to 2006 (see above and here); and no-one has ever stepped in to defend either capitals or italics. I'm going to standardize it throughout. If anyone disagrees, please explain your reasoning here. Eric Pode lives (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Is a synagogue ceremony essential?

Does a Jewish boy automatically become bar mitzvah when he turns 13, regardless of what he knows or what ceremony or aliyah in the synagogue has or has not taken place? Is he counted in a minyan without any bar mitzvah ceremony? deisenbe (talk) 11:44, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, and yes. Debresser (talk) 16:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Age of Bat Mitzvah in Conservative Judaism?

According to a December 2021 revision, still present as of this time, Conservative Judaism, like Reform Judaism, holds B'not Mitzvah at 13, just like boys. That was certainly not true when I was growing up, but there is a distressing lack of any concrete information I can find about this on the official USCJ/RCA organizational websites. Was there a shift? Is it on a synagogue-by-synagogue basis? Or was the edit just mistaken? --gejyspa (talk) 15:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the detail of when the 12-13 change happened, but from this, it would appear to have a gradual move toward equality on all fronts. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 15:33, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I had read that article when researching the question. But nowhere in that article does it state Conservatives in specific have ever held it (or hold it) at 13. 01:54, 4 May 2022 (UTC) --gejyspa (talk) 01:54, 4 May 2022 (UTC)