Talk:Ball and Chain (Big Mama Thornton song)

Chronology

How is it that Big Brother famously performed the song in 1967, but Thornton did not release her song until 1968? How did Big Brother get the song? There must have been a demo recording, or sheet music, or something like that, from which they learned her song. Or is there a mistake? We should try to find out more. I'll copy the information from Big_Mama_Thornton#Career, but we should get more, preferably from an online source. DougHill (talk) 18:22, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Copied. But if that copied source is correct, how did Bay-Tone Records get the copyright? Did Thornton sign it over? The quoted segment makes it sound like their failure to release the song earlier had something to do with the copyright, but this is unclear. DougHill (talk) 18:31, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The complete AllMusic quote is "Early-'60s 45s for Irma, Bay-Tone, Kent, and Sotoplay did little to revive her sagging fortunes, but a series of dates for Arhoolie that included her first vinyl rendition of "Ball and Chain" in 1968 and two albums for Mercury in 1969-1970 put her back in circulation (Janis Joplin's overwrought but well-intentioned cover of "Ball and Chain" didn't hurt either). "[1]. In looking through online sources, there is no mention of an earlier recording. It is certainly possible Joplin picked up the song from Thornton from live performances (both were active in the Bay Area at the same time). The Bay-Tone claim sounds suspicious: a copyright is filed by the composer (a person, not a record company). The Arhoolie single shows the songwriter as "W. M. Thornton" and the publisher as "Baytone Music" (see image in infobox); Joplin & BB listed the writer as Thornton[2] (A publisher takes a cut of the fees, but not all, unless the songwriter signed their rights away). BMI lists the songwriter as Thornton, but with a different publisher.[3] If the statement by Bay-Tone is true, why isn't someone else listed? It is possible that a former manager or record label is just trying to muddy the waters for whatever reason. If it had been recorded earlier, why hasn't it surfaced anywhere (bootleg or otherwise)? The Bay-Tone statement in the article should be rewritten to reflect that it conflicts with other reliable sources. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:14, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Go ahead, or I'll try later. DougHill (talk) 17:37, 15 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

Most sources, together with the original record label and BMI, give the title of the song as "Ball and Chain" (or "Ball & Chain"), not "Ball 'n Chain" (or "Ball 'n' Chain"). I propose that it be moved to "Ball and Chain (Big Mama Thornton song)". Apparently it was moved from that title in 2007, here, but with no real explanation. Any thoughts? Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:30, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move back. A quick look at Discogs shows the earliest releases by Big Brother and Thornton were titled "Ball And Chain" as well as many reissues. St. Louis Blues (song)/Saint Louis Blues (song) has also been changed a couple of times.[4] —Ojorojo (talk) 17:52, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It seems it needs admin approval. If no-one objects, I'll seek that change in a day or so. Ghmyrtle (talk)

Requested move 18 January 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 17:00, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ball 'n Chain (Big Mama Thornton song) → Ball and Chain (Big Mama Thornton song) – Most sources, together with original record label and BMI, give song title as "Ball and Chain". Article was moved from that title in 2007, without good explanation. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:11, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support move Record releases show the earliest titles as "Ball and Chain". Covers, compilations, etc., sometimes use "Ball 'n' Chain", "Ball & Chain", etc., but the most common appears to be "Ball and Chain", which is what Joplin's official record label usually uses.[5] Previous moves were explained as "the correct title", but without discussion or giving examples. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.