Talk:Athene (gamer)

Untitled

Please help by providing sources and more content. The gaming career section needs a good list of Athene's accomplishments, such as his leveling records, etc. Thank you. Onixz100 (talk) 20:12, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Here is another source, although it is in Dutch. http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail.aspx?artikelId=DMF08052008_101 CoSLaK (talk) 00:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

→ added this source and more where applicable

Article sources

Sources for this article have been proposed: Joystiq: http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/01/06/wrath-of-the-1337-king-seriously-wtf/ → already has different souce http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com/athenes-theory-of-everything/ → added source http://www.trueactivist.com/athenes-theory-of-everything/ → added source Mentioned in LA Times, but I can't find an online article. → found and added source Featured in Het Laatste Nieuws, the most popular newspaper in Belgium. → i think this source was meant, added it Featured on CNN.com: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-778978 → link dead, other cnn sources already added http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331129 → i think this falls under user generated content, didn't add http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.8157995/ → link is dead, but new link was added alby13 (talk) 05:14, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Four sources were dumped in the lede as a single uninsightful "Boumaaza has been featured in sources such as..." sentence. They're here if anybody wants to reattach them:

[1] → this link seems dead [2] → this link seems dead [3] → don't see a good place to add this [4] → this link seems dead

--McGeddon (talk) 17:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

References

→ went through all sources here and added them where applicable

Citations needed (Specifically: List of achievements under section Gaming Career.)

I was going to add the "Citation needed" tag to all the claims in the list, but that really just looked silly when I previewed. I might try to find sources myself, as I'm sure these achievements are documented through at least some reliable sources, but I don't have the time for that right now. Obviously, feel free to help if you want to.
Xwayj (talk) 12:24, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

→ youtube career section seems to have plenty of sources now

Primary Sources

It seems that the major changes done in 21:35, 19 August 2022‎ were reverted twice with reason being based on primary sources. Both reverts removed all of the new material, including:

• reliable secondary sources
• added citations from existing paragraphs that were previously marked as missing
• information that is crucial to mitigate bad faith assumptions (since this is a biography of a living person)

It seems excessive to remove all of the contributions within 1 revert based on the same argument, since that means legit parts could get accidentally removed. Especially considering that the revert removed 80% of total resources, from 100+ down to 20+, it's plausible that at least some of these removals were unintended. Instead of reverting the whole contribution I would appreciate if editors could point out the actual parts that require different sources, so these citations can be fixed. Since every piece of information added has separate sources linked, it should be feasible for editors to distinguish which sentences require extra work. Much of the information contained in the article can be backed up by different sources, so it should be rather easy to find a better citation where required. If you could please clarify which primary sources are not allowed or which other parts should be worked on, I'd be grateful to learn and improve. Specifically asking User:Samwalton9 & User:Binksternet

I also went through talk sections above, added sources were applicable, and replaces primary sources with better ones. Feel free to use citation needed tags for any places where citations should be improved.

Cassidy13K (talk) 18:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Cassidy13K. I've reverted again per WP:BRD. You've boldly reworked the entire page, adding a range of new information and sources, but I think there are problems with these additions, so I'm reverting for now and we can discuss the changes here. Almost every citation you added is either a primary source (i.e. written/published by Athene or one of his organisations/staff) or is unreliable (e.g. blogs or news websites with no professional staff). Content added to Wikipedia must cite reliable secondary sources - that is, journalists or authors writing about the subject. We can't add large amounts of new content based on Twitter posts, Reddit threads, gaming blogs, or one of Athene's own websites. Instead of these wholesale additions could you outline below the topics which you think the article is missing and the reliable secondary sources which provide information on those topics? Sam Walton (talk) 14:47, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

As an addendum, can you confirm whether you have any relation to the subject of the article? Per WP:COI this needs to be declared. Sam Walton (talk) 14:48, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Independent WP:SECONDARY sources are the foundation of good writing on Wikipedia. They help define what is important to a topic. If secondary sources are not available to support Athene's connection to "Mobile MiniGames" then that campaign is not proved to be important. All I see are primary sources and public relations writing. Binksternet (talk) 16:04, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

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Hello Samwalton9 and Binksternet. First of I'm not sure if this is the correct way to notify you, please let me know how else to do it. :) I'm not family/friend/romantically related with the subject in question, nor am I paid or employed to make these changes. I have contributed to a few of projects which I have added information from, but always tried to cite sources that are not written by me personally, nor where I was involved in the creation of these sources. Again I wasn't paid or employed by these projects and at least half of the content added I wasn't involved with at all, just did research that anyone with access to google can do.

For example, you have removed my changes that talk about users who have used the donation platform Gaming For Good, even though there were several news articles proving such involvement - these meet your journalist secondary sources criteria. Below is an example of a pointer that was completely removed. I'm in no way shape or form affiliated with the websites that published these articles, nor did I know at the point of publishing about them or the content therein. I literally just yesterday found them on google. There are also multiple different sources, so in case you doubt the credibility of one of these pages.

• Zerator - creator of Z Event

Before looking further into every changed section, I would appreciate your input on the above. If this was a valid addition to the article, then I would appreciate if the removal for these and similar paragraphs could be reverted.

• For the question whether Boumaaza is involved with Mobile MiniGames, here's an example article (this source was removed too): https://de.beincrypto.com/die-krypto-person-der-woche-bachir-athene-boumaaza/
• to this article a person stating something on video about themselves may be used, since it proves the content's authenticity. This means Boumaaza stating in a video that he is indeed involved with the game mentioned above should further indicate that such content is truthful. (such video sources I had added where removed)
• Do YouTube videos or Twitch VoDs that showcase what is described in the wikipedia text, or articles purely based on such videos, count as credible sources?
• article states that "(...)If the subject has denied such allegations, their denial(s) should also be reported(...)" this means paragraphs in the Singularity Group section where the subjects respond to the accusations should be allowed? Examples such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2npe__Yc2Qg and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3MzZkYO2kM were removed.

Cassidy13K (talk) 20:53, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

References

Yes, you notified me correctly.

The link you provided to gettotext.com looks like a public relations story rather than a real journalist doing journalism. And it doesn't mention Athene so its use here at this biography is a synthesis of sources (see WP:SYNTH.) Same with your link to millenium.org.

Regarding a person on video making a statement about themselves, it may be used if it is needed. The existence of the video statement doesn't establish the importance of the issue. Wikipedia is selective about what information to include, preferring widely reported major issues.

The investigative reporter cannot just be shot down with tweets and hearsay. The Kotaku news item says Athene denied some of the allegations, which is sufficient. Binksternet (talk) 23:59, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

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Hello Binksternet. Thanks for your response. Both these links include mentions of Bachir Boumaaza. Since the article Athene is about the persona from Boumaaza, I'm not sure why it would need to mention Athene specifically? millenium.org has 7,6m visitors a month and provides french esports news. Please let me know if you believe this one or any of the other 2 linked ones are valid sources. I wanted to include information about users using the platform since known streamers using it usually indicates a product being useful or impactful in the respective sphere.

My intention was to provide more information that wasn't mentioned. For example you wrote that the news item says Athene denied the allegation, but this information was not added to the page. According to info should have been added. Since Athene also created a video statement about it, I believe adding it counts a valid source of his response. Similarly, since the reporters video was mainly based on a specific person, the official response of this person seems a valid addition too.

What is the best course of action from here to add the pieces of information back that are valid additions to the article? Do I propose each topic at a time to add back in this talk page, or add them directly for others to adjust where needed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cassidy13K (talk • contribs) 22:16, 4 September 2022 (UTC)