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The mother of Suleyman is usually known as "Hafsa Sultan", without the "Ayşe" part. I will move the article's name if there is no opposition.--Phso2 (talk) 19:33, 26 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. The target page might be better off as a disambiguation page as suggested by the proposer, so a new multi-move request should be opened. Suggested might be something like:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
– Common name for Selim I's consort and mother of Suleyman I is simply "Hafsa Sultan"; it is found in each and every reliable source on the subject and panels on Istanbul monuments. The previous name's origin is obscure, perhaps an OR from personal websites or a confusion with Ayşe Hatun (wife of Selim I). Phso2 (talk) 14:07, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This might also help to distinguish her from Ayşe Hatun (wife of Selim I). We shouldn't drop the name Ayşe from the article, whithout a definitive source. It is not OR or from a website. I checked on books.google.com and she is named frequently "Ayşe Hafsa" in books going back as far as 1946. Also most other wikipedias name her "Ayşe Hafsa", only French and ukrainian name her just "Hafsa" Arved (talk) 08:25, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, it can't be OR nor from a website; still, I only find books in Turkish with this name, whose authors' reliability is difficult to ascertain (note that it doesn't seem to be a peculiarity of Turkish historiography, since Uluçay's classic book "Padişahların Kadınları ve Kızları" calls her "Hafsa Sultan". That other wikis use Ayşe Hafsa is no wonder, since they are almot always copies of the English article; the Turkish article was created as "Hafsa Sultan" then renamed shortly afterwards.--Phso2 (talk) 11:53, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
It's a bit silly to say her origin is disputed, and then to go on to say that only tourist guidebooks and popular histories say she was the daughter of a Crimean Khan. This is not her origin being disputed, this is the myth of her Crimean origins not having died out yet. I'm rephrasing the sentence. Chamboz (talk) 15:17, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I have seen, there's an academic consensus that she wasn't the daughter of the Crimean Khan. Specialists on this topic, like Leslie Peirce and Alan Fisher, are very clear about this. All the secondary sources you cited were by non-specialists, like Reşat Kasaba, who is an expert on the Ottoman Empire in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries; and Brian Glyn Williams, who has apparently written on the Crimeans but again with a focus on the modern age. If you can cite anyone who actually specializes on the period in question and has done research in that area in the way that Fisher and Peirce do, by all means I'd be happy to see it. Chamboz (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Chamboz, I highly respect Peirce's work; my intention is only to remove the bias tone of "certainty" when there clearly is uncertainty with regards to the Harem.
This is not Peirce's theory. This appears to be Uluçay's theory, based on waqf documents and inscriptions. The Crimean theory is of Western origin and is not based on documentary evidences; as Chamboz writes, it simply has not died out yet, because it is older and more appealing (Crimean princess vs obscure slave), but there doesn't seem to exist a real controversy (ie a scholarly debate where evidences are brought forth and discussed).--Phso2 (talk) 21:20, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hafsa Sultan (wife of Selim I) → Hafsa Sultan – This page was moved to its current title to disambiguate between Selim I's wife and his daughter. However, the article about Selim's daughter has been deleted and does not exist anymore, and it turns out that the daughter's name has been recorded as Hafize not Hafsa in sources; thus this attempt for disambiguation was unnecessary in the first place, as Hafize and Hafsa are totally different names. Keivan.fTalk01:28, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
