Talk:Associate international cricket in 2022–23

Season Length

The article indicates that the season runs from September 2022 - April 2023, yet there are matches on this page that occur in May. There is no citation of the season length, and the article Associate international cricket in 2023 also includes matches in May. There needs to be some update here. A citation is needed.

This got me thinking if the season is even an accurate thing. Does the ICC even set "seasons" or is this something fans have come up with just to make it easier to group? If the later, why three over a three year span (i.e. 2021, 2022, 2023) as a separate rather than this weird 4 over three years (i.e. 2022, 2022-23, 2023, 2023-2024.) Fulner (talk) 16:17, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Fulner A "season" isn't a global thing, but within cricket some countries, mostly in the northern hemisphere, have a one year season (e.g. 2023), while others mostly in the southern hemisphere have their summer season spanning two years (e.g. 2022-2023). All cricket events are grouped according to one of these. When looking at international events, it is generally based on when the series starts. There is inevitably some overlap in April and September. I feel that April should primarily be in the single year season as the UK season begins then, but likewise some events finish in April having stared earlier. Most European events in April would be counted as 2023 by the hosts, and it is difficult to draw an exact line when applying seasons globally. Not a factual statement as such, more an attempt to divide; but certainly there are 2023-23, 2023 and 2023-24 seasons. Bs1jac (talk) 11:13, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

or to put it another way, every country has their season. Some are single years e.g. the English, Irish, American 2023 (summer) seasons. Others have their season span two years e.g. the Australian, New Zealand, South African 2022-23 (summer) seasons. Bs1jac (talk) 13:33, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

It's incredibly confusing, but I think you answered my question saying that some wikipedians just made it up. Fulner (talk) 16:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Please read: New articles

All active editors need to be aware that not every series should have an article, due to necessary notability and local media coverage. Please see the following suggested guidelines. Note that this is not an officially agreed set of rules, but a suggestion for future seasons.

Series to include on the season summary article (like this):

• All T20I/WT20I World Cup qualifiers, even those including one or more Full Members
• Any other events with T20I/WT20I status that are not included on the equivalent International cricket season
• Selected events without T20I/WT20I status, such as regular regional tournaments (e.g., Baltic Cup)
• 50-over events without ODI status that are part of qualification for regional events (e.g., ACC Premier Cup for the Asia Cup)

Series that should have an article:

• All T20I/WT20I World Cup qualifiers
• Cricket tournaments that are part of a multi-sport event (e.g., Commonwealth/Pacific/Asian/African/South Asian Games)
• Regional championships (e.g., South American Championship, Pacific Cup)
• Other regular or long-standing and well-covered events (e.g., Kwibuka, Inter-Insulars)
• Any other T20I/WT20I series that involves at least one side with current ODI status

Series that should not have an article:

• T20I/WT20I bilateral series that do not meet any of the above criteria
• Multi-team tournaments between the smallest teams that do not meet any of the above criteria and do not have fairly significant media coverage.

Bs1jac (talk) 16:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Umm

@Bs1jac: Looks like someone went ahead of you. Human (talk) 20:04, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human That's fine, but @Vikram maingi:, why has this been created when it only contains redirects? Would have made more sense to wait until pages had been created for the qualifiers. Bs1jac (talk) 20:21, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vikram maingi: Please be aware that you have been created articles without consulting with a more experienced user in the subject of cricket. You have not responded to any communications made to you. We would not be able to assist or give feedback on what you do in that case. If not by us, you can be taken to ANI in future by someone else. Human (talk) 11:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: Hi, I agree that I created the page, only when the series were confirmed but series page wasn't created. At least the Users will come about when the series is taking place. Also, I have noticed that similar practise is being followed currently, i.e. Series information is being added on Associate International cricket and International cricket pages respectively, without even creating the series page. Feedback will be appreciated. By the way, what is ANI? Best Regards, Vikram Maingi (talk) 07:14, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@Vikram maingi: Adding information and creating an article are different things. You need reliable news sources to create series articles or they will be up for deletion by someone else. That would just increase trouble for us. Just citing Cricinfo scorecards or questionable sources like Czarsportz aren't enough. My second reply to you was when you created the Hungary-Austria series. Now about this article it is currently fine. Also please do not create redurects for players of associate nations. See WP:NCRIC on what players are eligible for an article. For associate nations, only the ODI players and players who played in the WC Qualifiers can have redirects or articles. Other exceptionas include, players whose article were decided to be redirected in AfD and players who have enough news coverage to have an article. ANI is where cases are filed against editors with concerns and administrators review and take actions. You're inability to respond is a major concern. Human (talk) 07:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: I acknowledge that I missed to respond timely on this page. Will take care in future. For a better turnaround time, I would be helpful if you write the information on my talk page instead of the talk page of the article. With regards to redirects on Associate cricketers, please feel free to delete the pages in case the respective cricketers do not meet the criteria by the end of next week. Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 18:10, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: Please check the page for Neil Karnik. This page is of an Associate Cricketer, with a redirct to List of cricketers of his country. The page has been created by a very very well known editor. So, can I say that I am just following the process which is already being followed by other better known editors. Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 07:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: / @A Simple Human: While browsing through the qualification process of 2024 ICC Men's T20 World Cup, I observed that pages have already been created with just REDIRECTs for Africa Region and EAP Region. Is this fine? Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 18:38, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@Vikram maingi For now, yes. I believe someone created too soon and another editor redirected. They probably can be done now when somebody gets round to it. Bs1jac (talk) 18:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Requesting both of you guys to check the Edit history of the 2 pages mentioned above. Both of them were created by the same editor (almost at the same time) just to Redirect them. With due respect to the contributions and game knowledge of all of you guys, I would to share that if creation of Africa Region and EAP Region qualifiers, just with REDIRECTs is allowed, then probably creation of this page, will only series name and before series detailing page should also be allowed. At least the page is giving an idea of when the regional qualifiers are going to take place, with sources from ICC. Please provide your inputs on this so there is minimal (if not zero) logical inconvenience from my side. Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 07:10, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: / @A Simple Human: Humbly request both of you to provide your feedback on this point as well. Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 10:55, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Vikram maingi: As for Neil Karnik, I dont know why they created them, but dont do it because others did it. Lugnuts isnt active for past two days for unknown reason so I cannot contact them. But I'm letting it slide because Singapore is appearing in the WC qualifier. Until the player plays in the match dont add links. Human (talk) 07:16, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

I also created a couple of REDIRECTs of Singapore T20I debutants, who have a good chance to play T20I qualifier.

Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 10:51, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Vikram maingi Always best not to create players as redirects in my opinion, even if they have played in the qualifier. Wait until they actually do play in the qualifier, then write a proper page. If a player meets GNG/NPCRIC (rg by playing in the qualifier), it means a page CAN be created, but not that one MUST be created. For me, redirects are for when a page has been created that does not meet notability requirements. Bs1jac (talk) 11:06, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree to this point. But, in my earlier experiences too, whenever I tried to create a new page for any such Associate player at the time of debut, I noticed that a REDIRECT link from that player page was already in place well before the announcement of the team / start of the match. So, this time I also attempted the same. Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 12:28, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

By the way, I am still waiting for your and Human's inputs on the point regarding creation of Africa Region and EAP Region qualifiers with just a REDIRECT. Thanks again,Vikram Maingi (talk) 12:28, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Vikram maingi: Bs1jac would better know about that. Human (talk) 13:17, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

On the players, I just saw Human's early comment "don't do it because other did". Thats absolutely correct. On the tournaments, I believe they redirect to the world cup simply because nobody has written them yet. I am not sure how much has been officially announced other than general dates and teams. Bs1jac (talk) 13:26, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: Hi. Someone added details about ACA Africa T20 Cup. What do you think of this? Human (talk) 21:11, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human Hi. Although there is a lower bar for inclusion on the calendar compared to individual articles, there does need to be a level of confidence of roughly when its happening. I have not seen any details other than it might be in September, so I would suggest hiding this using comment tags for now. Also the groups shown are as announced when it should have happened in 2019; format might have changed since then. Bs1jac (talk) 21:54, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: Yeah the only thing I found about this one is the article from Czarsportz. Human (talk) 21:59, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human I'll go ahead and hide the content for now Bs1jac (talk) 22:01, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @Bs1jac: / @A Simple Human: -> There were a few questions and suggestions when I created this page with a few series. Concern was that the series page was not in place for any of the 4 series. I just noticed that International cricket in 2024 page was created 4 months ago (i.e. 2 years before the start of the season) with just a REDIRECT and ZERO information about the season. Can you guys please look into this and provide your feedback. Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 08:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Vikram maingi. Not sure why International cricket in 2024 was created so early as a redirect; probably shouldn't have been (or at least didn't need to be). We shouldn't use "someone else did similar" as a reason to create something though. I/we normally create the associate seasons once there is some solid info on at least one event (enough for a series article), OR when we are a month or two away from the season beginning. Bs1jac (talk) 08:50, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: Just found this from Argentina. Human (talk) 07:36, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human yeah czarsportz guy told me about this ages ago but we didnt have much info. Will take a look. Bs1jac (talk) 07:39, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Articles

@Bs1jac: Hi. Looks like there are more editors getting interested in associate cricket. Which is good but they are creating articles without much thought it looks like. Someone created the Tanzania-Rwanda series article a few moments ago, and some others created the Asia and Americas qualifiers a while ago. They dont seem to be ready to create just yet looking at what sources are used. I've been quite busy recently so wasn't paying much attention to Wikipedia in general. Human (talk) 21:34, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human Hi yeah I noticed (and mostly fixed the Africa one). Hmmm, we need to avoid poor quality, poorly sourced content damaging our work. I was thinking Tanzania would probably be ok but not yet. Certainly think Americas and Asia qualis should go back to redirects. Bs1jac (talk) 21:37, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: Someone just created the qualis 2023 ICC Men's T20 World Cup Asia Qualifier and 2023 ICC Men's T20 World Cup Americas Qualifier. Human (talk) 22:04, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: Having had a look, the user who created the Tanzania series appears to be from Tanzania so understand that one. It is too early as it has not yet met GNG or WP:NCRIC, with just one poor source and a squad Tweet, but given that it starts soon let's give this one the benefit of the doubt, while keeping an eye for better sources. The Asia and Americas Qualfiers at least have mediocre sources. I have removed the subregional sections as none of that is confirmed (dates, venues, even teams as they may chage, see Africa!). Bs1jac (talk) 22:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: I found a coverage for Tan-Rwa: [1]. This might be alright for an article now. Human (talk) 05:53, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

South American championship

@Vikram maingi: The matches in South American championships were later decided as not being played as T20Is. Please do not add T20I number which you apparently have no idea how it works. And yes please use some of your time to read the article. Human (talk) 10:45, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Cambodia-Philippines

@Bs1jac: Any clarification from ESPNcricinfo about the status yet? Is it a "no" or are they still unsure? মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 15:38, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

@Mashfi23 Nothing sure, but seems less likely. Cambodia saying "t20i friendlies", so the classic do they mean "t20i status" or "t20i format" Bs1jac (talk) 15:40, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: ESPNcricinfo is now showing the matches as T20Is of course, but the scorecards have a lot of missing information as you saw - and watching the live streams of the matches again, I see that it still looks weird (the ends are not being switched after overs, the umpires are also not moving after overs). I remember someone saying that Cambodia should be in the ICC rankings after the series if this was official, but looks like that still isn't the case. Did ESPNcricinfo actually manage to confirm these as T20Is? Because these do indeed seem to be unofficial after all this time. মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 07:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@Mashfi23 They told me that they were, although the cards were low quality eg missing catchers and balls faced. Sure you know that AM matches sometimes take ages to be added to rankings calculations, so dont listen to that (immediate) logic. The only thing that could possibly happen is that the ICC revoke status from the games if they feel playing conditions were not met, but for now yes they are t20is. Bs1jac (talk) 07:30, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@Bs1jac I see. I guess I hope the ICC notices this series soon enough, so us common folk can finally get some "official" clarification. Thanks for the info. মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 08:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Just found this, so I guess that's one (more) external confirmation. I'm sorry if I bothered you. মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 08:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@Mashfi23 No worries! Thanks for spotting this, I was still slightly unsure but if the ACS were informed seperately to Cricinfo that's a good sign (I imagine they got this from a good source). Hopefully reflected in the rankings eventually. Bs1jac (talk) 00:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: Still feels weird seeing ESPNcricinfo scorecards for full internationals with so much information missing in this day and age, but beggars can't be choosers I guess. Thanks again. মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 09:35, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

@Mashfi23 Cambodia are now on the rankings table with 6 games (ICC, not Cricinfo); no Philippines for some reason though (even though they also have 4 vs Indonesia from December 2019 which count half, so they should show on the table with 8). Bs1jac (talk) 10:31, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Looks like CricketArchive now has the scorecards for the series with number of balls faced included, and also the FoW information for one match. Still a number of discrepancies though, and the cards differ from the ESPNcricinfo ones a lot too. মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 12:32, 26 January 2023 (UTC)