Talk:Ariaramnes

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2019 and 12 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dylanhall2.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

To Do List

1. Add name in Old Persian characters (when technically feasible)
2. Correct modern Arabo-Persian alphabet spelling (if needed)
3. Possibly move to Ariaramnes of Anshan, etc. if consensus finds this is more correct moved it to Ariaramnes of Anshan to fit the pattern I noticed in the rest of the series, but there are lots of dbl redirects to fix and some articles still don't link here, because they say Ariamnes of Anshan.
4. More details on life & reign

Location of the tablets now

Does anyone know where they are? Are they in a museumin Tehran or have they been convieniently "lost"? Reading Herzfeld (1934) he mentions the dubious tablets but doesn't say WHO excavated them.

We are having some difficulty separating fact from fiction in relation to the early Persian empire. However I find it difficult to see where this person and his son fit into the monarchs of the time, since there was no Persian empire then, the forerunners of Cyrus the Great were kings of Anshan, the region was dominated by the Median Empire. As far as I can make out Darius may have had an ancestor of this name, but the idea that he was a king looks like a fabrication. PatGallacher (talk) 20:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

we??? You were kindly asked not to read fictions. Only "kings" need to be called "notable" and hence have page in wikipedia? The very fact that The Cambridge History of Iran, Dandamaev's "Political History of Achaemenids", discuss this person in detail and the very fact that Britannica has an entry on this name "Ariaramnes (king of Persia)" is not enough to establish notability? Please use talk page before making edits like (redirect, move, putting tags). And wait for a feedback from others...Xashaiar (talk) 13:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

There are several issues here:-

1. I recognise it is generally good practice to consult before making moves. I did propose the moves of the Cambyseses and waited about a day. How long should I have waited? I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the approach I was adopting was non-controversial, so I moved Cyrus. I don't think there is any requirement to consult before placing notability flags, they are supposed to stimulate discussion.

2. If the Cambridge History and Dandamaev discuss this person in detail then we need to know what they say about him, there is nothing about this in the article. Please clarify.

3. Of course it is not just kings who are notable. However at present all we have is mention of him is brief mention of him in 1 or 2 genealogies (which may not even be genuine) plus a tablet which is probably a fake. This does not clearly establish notability. PatGallacher (talk) 20:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Please do not make your moves, redirects, tags,... based on your judge. Your tag was placed wrongly, you could consulted any Encyclopaedia. Enough RS "Coverage" does establish notability. Anyway, please consult before moves, redirects, .. and wait until a WP:CONS is reached, no news for one day is really not a green light for go ahead. Thanks. Xashaiar (talk) 02:11, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I have consulted the Britannica, he is in it, although his son Arsames is not. There are still just a few problems. Where do we say he was king of? "Persia" can be slightly misleading, "Parsa" might be better, we could just go for plain "Ariaramnes" as there is no need to disambiguate him. The tablet which mentions him could be genuine, but Darius' claim to descent from him may not be. PatGallacher (talk) 14:46, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

When it comes to the emergence of the Persian Empire, I’m afraid there’s no text that can be taken as completely authoritative. As such, the many contradictions and incongruities associated with this period will probably not be satisfactorily resolved until some new discovery or breakthrough is brought to light in published form. Until then, it’s a matter of speculation and ongoing research. FYI… if I were to guess at the identification of Ariaramnes, I would consider his name as a clue, since it has two distinct meanings; one in Old Persian, the other in Aramaic—the lingua franca of his family’s future empire under Darius. In Old Persian, he is “bringer of peace to the Aryans” …while in Aramaic, he is “lion of the highland” – a title that I imagine he earned in battling the Assyrians. Imahd (talk) 17:34, 1 May 2016 (UTC)