Talk:Moon landing conspiracy theories/Archive 6

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the whole "conspiracy theory" thing

It's frequently done that a change is made for NPOV reasons where "conspiracy theory" is replaced by "hoax accusation" Not to sound too harsh, but isn't conspiracy theory exactly the term to describe a supposed secret collusion among a small group for their own benefit. Is it just because of the negative connotations of the term? i kan reed 21:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

My God. Another one. Are you a sock puppet? See the archived discussion. Conspiracy theory is a term of abuse that is never used by moon hoax proponents to describe themselves. Carfiend 21:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Please don't casually accuse people of being sock puppets, and please don't assume that everyone has read all of the archived discussion. Again, I encourage you to review WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL. You are treading on shaky ground and may find yourself the subject of unwelcome admin attention. I am hoping you can avoid this by taking the above policies and guidelines to heart. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 21:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Sock puppet accusations seem just fine when the shoe's on the other foot though, funny how that is eh? Carfiend 21:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't expect people to describe themselves that way. it's just the literal meanings of the word "conspiracy" (a secret collusion among people to exploit others) and "theory" (facts and hypotheses regarding and idea) seem very apt. I'm well aware that the term is normally used to describe "loonies" by many people, but the question of aptness is all I was after

and i'm not a sock puppet, please assume a little good faith, I know cynicism can get to you(and me)i kan reed 21:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

A theory about a conspiracy is not the same as a conspiracy theory. You don't find Ken Lay, or the lawyers in his case described as conspiracy theorists, even though they have theories about conspiracies. The term carries with it the judgement that the conspiracy is not true. Carfiend 21:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

That's fair, however... I'm still concerned about the tone that "hoax accusations" gives. While I agree that "conspiriacy theories" is unfair because of connotations, "hoax accusations" has 2 problems in my mind

• It sounds like the wrong part of speech for how it is used in most cases
• It sounds like the hoax itself is all that is concerned when in fact, a conspiracy is described

I'm sure we can all reach a reasonable consensus (like me understanding the use better) i kan reed 21:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Fine. Sorry for snapping, but this discussion has just been archived yesterday. If you have a suggestion for a new title, please give it. Carfiend 21:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, the first thing that's easier to change is "hoax proponents" which would literally mean people who maintain the hoax(the opposite posistion of those the term seems to be describing). I could go for "Landing disbeleivers" however that can be read as slightly POV against the landing disbeleivers. ideas? i kan reed 21:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Well "landing disbeleivers" sounds strange to a native English speaker, but "hoax disbelievers" is likewise not going to go over too well. Hoax proponents makes sense because they propound the idea of the hoax. Hoax accusers maybe? But they are not in the title, so I don't see why it matters. Carfiend 21:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

"Landing disbelief" or "landing denial" does not work, because at least one or two of the hoax hypotheses concede lunar landings. "Conspiracy theory" is technically true, but it carries an underlying assumption of some degree of lunacy. It's like calling someone a "sockpuppet" when they know in their hearts that they aren't one. Wahkeenah 23:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Ouch. Carfiend 01:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Then again, used appropriately and in good faith, both terms accurately describe something for what it is, regardless of whether the object of the term finds the classification unaccceptable. But hey - I agree, conspiracy theory is too contentious to be applied usefully to titles. What was wrong with Apollo alternative accounts, again? That sounded natural and inclusive enough to me. Adhib 20:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

completely off-topic, but i can't help but laugh at the fact that lunacy is derived from the latin word for moon. i kan reed 13:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I use that term with full awareness of its origin. :) Wahkeenah 14:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)