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Talk:Hitachi Rail Italy Driverless Metro

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Good articleHitachi Rail Italy Driverless Metro has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 25, 2010Good article nomineeListed

Sources and numbers

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Arsenikk: Please check sources for numbers. I came here from GAN and the first link I checked was dead. I found a different Breda PDF which (I suspect) took its place, http://www.ansaldobreda.com/upload/allegati_prodotti/59_ITA_driverless.pdf - is it the same or not, I don't know.

The first time I read the lead something was really fishy - how can a 105 kW engine pull a passenger car, even a "light" one? It appears that it's engine per bogie, not per car (or is it one per axle, not per bogie? the source is too brief for such "technicalities"). But then I checked the numbers in the table and they aren't right either! For example, Breda brochure says Copenhagen trains have "8 x 128 kW", your table says "3 cars, 630 kW". The Breda brochure clearly describes a 4-car train (without explicitly saying "four cars"), but their Copenhagen photo shows a 3-car train ! "Reliable, third-pary sources independent of the subject" ... D'oh! I'll leave these riddles for you to solve. Also please check "22 vehicles built" in the infobox, it contradicts the "trains" data in the table (did Copenhagen receive their 34 trains or not? Or is it 34 cars, not 34 trains?).

I'd strongly suggest removing the article from GAN until it's all sorted out. And I'm talking only about numbers, not looking into words (which, as this edit shows, are another hint at non-reliable sourcing).

Cheers, East of Borschov 14:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • One thing that makes me worry - this tidbit on Milan Line 5 says "minimum headway of 75 seconds". How in the world can they do it in a driverless system? Auto-driving is peanuts, the real problem is in safe authorization to close doors and depart. Even moderate passenger congestion (Milan isn't a big city, don't expect Shanghai or Moscow crowds, but still...) will break the 75-second schedule. Do they actually have human attendants pressing the go button on the station, or do they rely on automation alone? East of Borschov 15:24, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have to write what the sources say. If you can find information that contradicts this specifically, please point it out. However, also the Rome Metro site claims a 75-second headway. I've used unstaffed trains since the mid-1980s, and 30 years later the headway should not be limited by the closing mechanisms for the doors. Presuming the use of moving blocks, and the braking distance at 80 km/h, 75 doesn't seem completely unreasonable, although I admit it is cutting edge. But I fear both my and your statements at the moment are original research. Arsenikk (talk) 22:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's the same PDF. At least I cannot find the mention of the doors that are supposed to be 1,3 m wide and 1.945 m tall. According to the other source, “En mini-metro med maksimal virkning”, the doors are 1,6 m wide (quote: “Døre: [...] 1600 mm”). Also the numbers for the Copenhagen metro seems wrong (8 doors per side, 50,5 m long, and total places 536 compared to 96 seats + 204 standing places mentioned in “En mini-metro med maksimal virkning”). --C960657 (talk) 00:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:AnsaldoBreda Driverless Metro/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 18:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: none found

Linkrot: three found, two fixed. I could not find a replacement for the third.[1] Jezhotwells (talk) 18:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Checking against GA criteria

[edit]
GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    and automatic train supervisory. Should this be "automatic train supervision."? Or should it be Automatic train stop (ATS)?
    Line 5 is an under construction line of the Milan Metro, Italy, Please rephrase this is very clumsy.
    Again, Line C of the Rome Metro, Italy, is an under-construction 25.5 kilometers (15.8 mi) line "an under-construction 25.5 kilometers (15.8 mi) line" is not an English construct, perhaps "is a line under construction."
    The infobox header has MX3000. this is unexplained, shouldn't it be something like AnsaldoBreda Driverless Metro?
    Seems likes someone changed the infobox after the nomination. Otherwise I've fixed up accordingly (supervision is correct). Arsenikk (talk) 22:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    ref #12[2] is dead and not available at the Internet Archive.
    ref #15 - can we have an English translation of the article title, also publication details.
    Other references check out as far as my limited knowledge of Danish and Italian goes.
    I used Google Translate to read the Italian. Ref #15 contains the title (now also translated) the publisher/author and the year of publication, which makes up the complete publication information. Arsenikk (talk) 22:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    The three and four-car trains have six three-phase asynchronous motors, each giving a power output of 105 and 128 kilowatts (141 and 172 hp), giving each train a power output of 630 or 764 kilowatts (840 or 1,025 hp). The previous paragraph mentioned six car trains, are they in any way different?
    Only Rome has six-car trains, and I have not been able to identify any figures for this, including no detailed information at this level on the project page. Arsenikk (talk) 22:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    OK
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
    Some concerns have been raised on the talk page - have these been dealt with?
    I've replied, or the issue has been resolved somehow. Part of the comments are valid, parts are OR. Arsenikk (talk) 22:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    OK, on hold for above issues to be addressed. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:26, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, thanks for addressing these concerns. I am happy to pass this as a good article. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:33, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for taking the time to review the article. It should all be fixed now. Arsenikk (talk) 22:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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