Talk:André Tchaikowsky

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Critics said...

And as a quick random check of what contemporary criticism of his concert performances actually did say reveals, it was rather more mixed... eg a "disappointing" Rachmaninoff Paganini Rhapsody (Poindexter, Adele (November 1975). "Music in London". The Musical Times. 116 (1593). London: Musical Times Ltd: 989. ISSN 0027-4666. OCLC 53165808.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 20:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Czajkowski or Tchaikowsky?

Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), articles should generally be titled according to the most common usage. Looking at the sources used for this article, it appears that "Andre Tchaikowsky" is used more frequently in English-language sources than the more accurate Polish spelling Andrzej Czajkowki. Should the article be moved? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 08:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A year later, and nobody's commented, so I've moved the article to Andre Tchaikowsky, in keeping with WP:COMMONNAME and WP:UE. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Except that it's André, surely, not the unaccented Andre. No? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:03, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(nearly 2 years later) Yes, agreed. The omission of the accent in the recent news items must be attributed to journalistic carelessness. Hence the following proposed move. --Deskford (talk) 04:26, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to André Tchaikowsky. Favonian (talk) 10:34, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Andre Tchaikowsky → André Tchaikowsky – This is the spelling used by the composer, his publisher, and most other sources outside Poland. --Deskford (talk) 04:26, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Diacritics should always be used in both article titles and text wherever they are considered appropriate [Ed: for rendering the name correctly]. Redirects omitting the marks must be always be provided, for standard keyboard use. This seems very uncontroversial. Milkunderwood (talk) 20:21, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - as per above comments and mine in previous thread. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:31, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - per above.THD3 (talk) 02:07, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - correctness above simplification. 81.83.141.80 (talk) 20:54, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - With a redirect omitting the diacritic, the only effect is to correct a long-standing error. Exok (talk) 21:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I get 8 post-1980 English-language Google Book examples of this name with a diacritic out of 118 total (72 deghosted). This includes International Who's Who in Classical Music. As far as media accounts go, BBC, New York Times, and Sydney Morning Herald all give this name diacritic free. Kauffner (talk) 06:35, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Then that would change the picture from being straightforward and easy, in contradiction to "most other sources outside Poland". I have no idea how much weight media sources should be given without comparing their use of diacritics in other names, especially more obscure ones. For other publications it might depend on their dates if more recent ones tend toward using the accent. In either case this could simply be ignorance of a relatively obscure musician. What does New Grove use? Milkunderwood (talk) 07:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fwiw, the official André Tchaikowsky website uses the diacritic throughout, and it includes the text of a letter from him, signed "André". -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 08:17, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jack, you say "the text" of a letter. I didn't see it, but if it's not a photocopy with his original signature, that may not mean very much other than the webmaster using a consistent form. Milkunderwood (talk) 08:50, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind that. Go to the Pianist tab, and there’s a program from the Last Night of the Proms, signed with the message "To Lois, With love and balloons, André Tchaikowsky". The accent is visible over the e; it’s very close to the horizontal part of the T of Tchaikowsky and at first glance it could be seen as part of the T, but it’s still separate. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 09:27, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Good evidence. :-) Milkunderwood (talk) 09:35, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

With reference to Google Books, BBC and Sydney are recent stories about David Tennant in Hamlet, presumably written by journalists with no background in or concern for music, and can probably be discounted; the same reasoning would apply to books that only mention Tennant's use of the skull. This is the same point as Deskford's in the preceding section, of "journalistic carelessness".

1957 NYT is harder; it would be interesting here to know how his name was printed (or misprinted?) in the program. Is it possible that at the start of his career Tchaikowsky was more nonchalant about the spelling? Milkunderwood (talk) 08:34, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Google Books search does not render diacritics correctly. Those hit counts are thus both unencyclopedic and inaccurate. Prolog (talk) 09:19, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. English-language encyclopedias spell foreign names correctly, as advised by reputable style guides, and do not propagate common errors (examples here). Prolog (talk) 09:19, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Prolog, that is a great page, much appreciated. Milkunderwood (talk) 09:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you like it. Prolog (talk) 10:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Looking now at the only hardcopy reference source available to me at present, Kennedy's 1980 Concise Oxford Dictionary 3rd Ed., he omits the accent, but says in the same entry "Début Paris 1948". Does anyone have a recent Oxford for comparison? Milkunderwood (talk) 10:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The accent mark was included in the fourth edition (1996, 2004). Prolog (talk) 10:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for checking. I suspected it might be partly a function of how old the reference is, as I suggested in my earlier post, above. That seems significant to me, as reputable authoritative sources continue to research, and correct older errors and omissions. In this case I feel no need to modify my original Support. Deskford's proposal is sound. We should not be propagating common errors. Milkunderwood (talk) 11:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Thanks for all your comments and researches. My impression had been that all the unaccented sources came from the Hamlet skull press frenzy, but clearly earlier examples exist. Nevertheless on balance I still think we should use the spelling that the composer used himself. We have no less than 22 redirects to this article from different versions of his name. --Deskford (talk) 13:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Since he lived as an OUT gay man, shouldn't it be mentioned that he was gay?

There are plenty of sources for this and by now at least 5 biographies of the composer. He was many things - a Jewish Holocaust survivor , a composer, a pianist and a Shakespeare lover to name a few, but he was also OUT as Gay during his life. I won't add anything; I simply ask others to consider the issue. Here is a reference from Opera News, an industry magazine: Tragic Dimension. Since he wasn't in the closet during his life, I would presume he'd have no issue with a brief mention of this aspect of his life.LiPollis (talk) 21:06, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it should be mentioned that he was gay 83.200.0.68 (talk) 19:32, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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