Talk:Bono dialect

Move discussion in progress

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Requested move 14 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Request withdrawn. — kwami (talk) 03:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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Bono dialect → Bono language – This is a distinct language per ISO and the consensus of linguistic sources summarized at Glottolog. [The Akan or Akanic languages are Akan, Bono and Wasa.] One editor insists it's a dialect of Akan per a 40-year-old source that, per that editor, also calls it a language, and evidently also says that it's the ancestor of Akan, which would be nonsense: one modern language can't be the ancestor of another. [e.g. Italian is closer to Latin than French is, but that doesn't make it the ancestor of French.] The motivation appears to be ethnic rather than linguistic: the Bono identify as ethnically Akan, therefore their language must be a dialect of Akan, regardless of whether it is linguistically. — kwami (talk) 21:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Disagree. The name Bono dialect should be maintained per linguistic sources from “A Profile of Bono Kyempem (Essays on the Archaeology, History, Language and Politics of the Brong Peoples of Ghana), Edited with Introduction by Kwame Arhin. Senior Research Fellow, Institute of African Studies, University of Ghana, Legon.”, Bureau of Ghana Languages and Ghana Bible Society. There is no such thing as Bono language, rather Bono dialect per the aforementioned sources. Linguist Prof Florence Abena Dolphyne explains Bono is one of the major dialects of Akan language. The whole information on the article or Bono dialect is based on the linguistic works of Prof Abena Dolphyne especially Phonological, Grammatical, Pronouns etc; it is therefore absurd to claim it old while contemporary sources from Bureau of Ghana languages and Ghana Bible Society agree with the linguistic works of Prof. One editor(Kwami) insists Ashanti must understand Bono before it can be classified as Akan which is linguistically wrong and ethnically bias; introduces new terms such as “Akan proper” and “Akan” without giving vivid explanations of what it is. It is therefore ridiculous to claim some dialects are Akan proper in this modern era. Linguistic sources from Ghana disagree Bosomba Amosah (talk) 08:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Of course the Ashanti must understand Bono for it to be a dialect -- that's the definition of what a dialect is. If two speech varieties are mutually intelligible, they're dialects of the same language. If they're not, they're different languages. Whether the speakers are the same ethnicity is utterly irrelevant. You even hold that ethnic Akan can't speak English as their native language because English is not a dialect of Akan.

It's common for sources to differ on whether closely related varieties are dialects or separate languages. Consider Scots. That's why we follow the preponderance of sources rather than cherry-picking one side or the other.

BTW, 'Akan proper' was just my informal way of differentiating Akan as defined by our sources [i.e. ISO Akan] from Akan as Bosomba defines it [i.e. Glottolog's 'Akanic'] - which Bosomba knows full well but continues to use as a red herring. — kwami (talk) 09:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Bono is mutually intelligible with Wasa, Fante, Akuapem, Asante etc, it is therefore linguistically wrong to reiterate Ashanti alone must understand Bono before it can be classified as Akan. Linguist Prof Abena Dolphyne (p.88) clearly states Bono is a major dialect of the Akan language and mutually intelligible with other Akan dialects of Fante, Akuapem, Wasa, Asante etc which Kwame knows but pretends. Kwami holds Akan people speak English as their native language which I rectified that it’s rather official language. The varieties of Akan languages agree Bono is mutually intelligible as per numerous sources from Bureau of Ghana Languages and Ghana Bible Society Bosomba Amosah (talk) 11:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

References. You need to provide references. Come on, stop pretending you don't understand. Give quotes and citations, since you don't seem to understand the basic concepts involved. And, as usual, I didn't say what you claim I did. — kwami (talk) 12:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I have provided references but since it doesn’t suit you, you pretend there is none. I understand everything, stop assuming for me Bosomba Amosah (talk) 13:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

You contradict yourself when you summarize what sources say. For instance, you say that Dolphyne calls Bono a language, and then deny that you said that. Your claim of mutual intelligibility in the intro cites a 19th century source that is contradicted by modern sources. You have a single author from 1979-1982 who says something similar, but again more modern sources classify Bono as a distinct language. I'm not saying those sources can't be wrong, but if you are going to claim they're wrong, you need to substantiate your claim. We use the preponderance of sources, not cherry-picked sources from decades or centuries ago. The fact that you present Bono as a subdialect of the Twi dialect directly contradicts recent sources that classify Bono as more distant from Twi than Fante is -- that is, even if we ignore the language/dialect question, modern sources contradict your position. Also, Dolphyne says that Bono is not a dialect, but instead a cluster of dialects. — kwami (talk) 00:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

No contradiction in my submission, per linguistic sources from Prof Dolphyne(p.88), Bono is a major dialect of Akan and mutually intelligible with other Akan dialects. Nowhwere did I say Dolphyne calls Bono a language, don’t put words in my mouth.

You claim Ashanti don’t understand Bono which I opposed. Dolphyne’s works are in 20th century, not 19th century. I have reiterated earlier and recent sources from Ghana agree Bono is a dialect of Akan language; Ghana Bible Society and Bureau of Ghana Languages agree. It’s good you admit sources could be wrong which your source is no exception. Read wholly the references I have provided and stop asking questions which have answers in the references. Yes, Bono is Twi, even the origin of the name Twi emanated from the names of one of the kings in Bono. Reference from “Anane Agyei (2012) Ghana’s Brong Ahafo Region: The story of an African Society in the heart of the world. p7” Bosomba Amosah (talk) 08:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

And I dispute your claim that the Bono are dolphins who live in Greenland.

Once again you either didn't bother to read what you responded to, or didn't understand it. How can you understand your sources if you can't understand this discussion? — kwami (talk) 09:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Your first statement seems out of context. You clearly don’t understand what you wrote. Bosomba Amosah (talk) 09:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I've asked Wikiproject Languages if anyone has recent sources that support Bosomba; I've also asked Ethnologue what their evidence is that Bono is a distinct language, or if the ISO code should be retired. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwamikagami (talk • contribs) 00:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Per linguistic sources from Ghana, Bono is a major dialect of the Akan language and mutually intelligible with all the other dialects of Akan. References:

https://ro.scribd.com/document/499620036/Kwame-Arhin-A-profile-of-Brong-Kyempim-1&usg=AOvVaw0lu4def0dqWQWMtk8B-_uY&opi=89978449

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355410564_An_Akan_Bono-Twi_Mother-Tongue_Commentary_on_the_Second_Letter_of_John&usg=AOvVaw2xONza1lHZmZcDWcs9Ln33&opi=89978449

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356642076_An_Akan_Reading_of_Matthew's_Version_of_the_Lord's_Prayer_Bono-Twi_Translation_in_Dialogue_with_Akan_Libation_Prayers&usg=AOvVaw21oRcHyaN5_V0MBQBhFvvl&opi=89978449

https://d.lib.msu.edu/asrvns/20

Bureau of Languages Ghana, Ghana Bible Society, Linguistic sources from Ghana attest to this. Bosomba Amosah (talk) 07:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

So in total you have one linguistic source, Dolphyne, from over 40 years ago, and a second from the 1800's when every African language was a 'dialect'. That's hardly a preponderance of evidence. — kwami (talk) 08:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have provided enough references and none of them is in 1800s, you choose not to read clearly. You can retire the ISO code or modify it and use Bono instead because no one else knows Abron in Ghana except Bono. Bosomba Amosah (talk) 09:11, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

You've provided 2 linguistic sources, one from the late 1800s and one from ca. 1980. I think we can dismiss the one from the 1800s that you now deny. That leaves a single primary linguistic source. — kwami (talk) 09:15, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

It’s now clear you don’t read the references or you are resorting to self assumption of dates in 1800s. I have provided more than enough and none of them is in 1800s. Taking your time might help well than rushing Bosomba Amosah (talk) 09:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

The Christaller ref that you (or perhaps someone else logged into your account) has repeatedly added to the article, to substantiate the claim that Bono is mutually intelligible with Twi, is from 1875. That's the only linguistic ref other than Dolphyne that your account has provided.

You should change your password if someone is editing under your name. — kwami (talk) 10:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have provided enough references reflecting linguistics sources from Ghana agreeing Bono is a major dialect of Akan and mutually intelligible with other Akan dialects. I was rather referring you to references I provided you with on this talk page. Bosomba Amosah (talk) 16:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Repeating false claims does not make them true. All told, you have provided exactly one RS: Dolphyne.

However, Ethnologue responded only by noting that Glottolog's reference for Bono being a a separate language was Stewart's chapter on Kwa in Bendor-Samuel 1989 The Niger-Congo Languages (p. 217-245); they don't mention any evidence of their own [though Stewart is an SIL publication, so it's quite possible that they used the same source]. Stewart postdates Dolphyne, but doesn't actually say Bono is a distinct language. Rather, it just says that of the three most important dialects by population, Brong/Abron and Fante "display greater diversity" than Asante-Akyem [p.127]. I read that to mean greater internal diversity, not greater divergence; Dolphine also notes great dialect diversity within Bono. On p. 125, Stewart lists Bono as just one of 4 notable dialects of the Akan dialect cluster [the 4th being the literary dialect Akuapem]. I therefore don't see any substantive argument that Bono [or Twi and Fante, for that matter] should be treated as separate languages.

I'm therefore self-closing this requested move.

To be consistent, however, per both Stewart and Dolphine, the Bia languages should be consolidated into two, Northern and Southern, for just 3 Central Tano languages and [per Stewart at least] 9 Tano languages. — kwami (talk) 03:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.