Talk:2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why don't you rename this article 2023 Türkiye–Syria earthquake, the official name for the first listed country?

A1: Because the English-language Wikipedia has a WP:COMMONNAME policy. We use names for countries and places that are the names commonly used for them in English, regardless of what official organizations use. Technically, this kind of name is known as an exonym. For example, we use the name Germany, instead of the native endonym Deutschland.

If or when that general English-language usage changes (as has happened in the past with place names such as Mumbai and Beijing), the same WP:COMMONNAME policy implies that the English-language Wikipedia will necessarily also follow suit. So far, that hasn't happened.

This has been discussed many times at Talk:Turkey, with the same result every time because of the common name policy; there is currently a moratorium at Talk:Turkey on further requests for name changes until 1 December 2023. Until that article is moved, this article will use Turkey in the article.

A news item involving 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 6 February 2023.

Wikipedia

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:
Not moved, 6 February 2023, to 2023 Gaziantep earthquake, see discussion. No consensus, 7 February 2023, to 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes, see discussion. Not moved, 14 February 2023, to 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes, see discussion. Moved, 20 September 2023, from 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquake to 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes, see discussion.

Earthquakes Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Earthquakes, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of earthquakes, seismology, plate tectonics, and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EarthquakesWikipedia:WikiProject EarthquakesTemplate:WikiProject EarthquakesWikiProject Earthquakes articles
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Geology Mid‑importance

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Syria High‑importance

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Turkey Top‑importance

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Western Asia High‑importance

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Kurdistan High‑importance

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Section sizes

Section size for 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes (32 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	14,704	14,704
Tectonic setting	23	10,912
Geology	4,859	4,859
Seismicity	6,030	6,030
Earthquake sequence	9,815	52,628
Aftershocks	6,279	6,279
Seismology	6,848	6,848
Rupture propagation	7,772	7,772
Surface rupture	7,150	7,150
Ground motion	6,024	6,024
Geological effects	4,857	4,857
Tsunami	2,456	2,456
Effects on other faults	1,427	1,427
Damage and casualties	28	168,568
In Turkey	85,069	85,069
In Syria	34,257	34,257
Foreign casualties	30,945	30,945
Effects in other countries	8,446	8,446
Aftershocks	9,823	9,823
International humanitarian efforts	196	15,089
Countries	305	305
National mourning	2,937	2,937
Criticism by the Syrian government and opposition	8,691	8,691
Health concerns	2,960	2,960
Commemorations	1,128	1,128
See also	317	317
References	15	3,885
Notes	56	56
Citations	31	31
Sources	3,783	3,783
Further reading	556	556
External links	2,029	2,029
Total	269,816	269,816

Title and despriction

The epicenter of the Kahramanmaras earthquake of February 6 was within the borders of west–northwest of Gaziantep, that is, Turkey. The fact that it also affected Syria does not mean that the earthquake took place in Syria. For example, 2008 Sichuan earthquake also affected Tayland, but it is not called a China-Tayland earthquake because its epicenter is in a town within the borders of China. I think the title should be changed to Gaziantep, Turkey earthquake. Zyzyyz (talk) 10:24, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There has been quite a lot of discussion about the title in the past. There are now at least 51 scientific papers that talk about the earthquake(s) to some degree. Of these 8 refer to the earthquake(s) as a doublet, 17 as "earthquakes", 14 as an "earthquake", 8 as an "earthquake sequence", with 4 only mentioning the event(s) in passing. In total then, 33 of the papers refer to earthquakes plural and 14 as singular. Only one of the 51 mentions Gaziantep, with the most common descriptor (22) being "Turkey", followed by 12 as "Kahramanmaraş" and 11 as "Turkey-Syria", with 5 other descriptors. The OCHA use "Turkiye/Syria: Earthquakes". International news stories in the last two months use a mixture - Al Jazeera "Turkey-Syria earthquake", The Guardian "Turkey withdraws as host of Cop16, blaming February’s earthquakes", CNN "Ashley Judd describes conditions six months after devastating earthquake hit Turkey and Syria". In conclusion, the majority of sources use earthquakes in the plural, hardly any use Gaziantep, Turkey-Syria is quite commonly used but not as much as Kahramanmaraş or just Turkey. We should probably revisit the discussion as to whether we should change to "2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes", but not to your suggestion I think. Mikenorton (talk) 23:38, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The earthquakes happaned “Kahramanmaraş/Pazarcık” (7.8mg) and “Kahramanmaraş/Ekinözü/Elbistan” (7.6mg) provinces, not Gaziantep, not syria. Gaziantep and other places effected by the earthquakes hardly. Both Turkish state officials and universities are approve epicenter by Kahramanmaraş province.Please fix this the page’s title because of wrong informing. 176.90.200.5 (talk) 14:37, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is for a global audience, not Turkish viewers. The title is for searchability and awareness within the global context. An earthquake's epicenter is not its only defining characteristic, definitely not for this historic event. This event sparked an international humanitarian crisis; the article covers aspects of its impact outside of Turkey. Removing Syria from the title which appears to be your suggestion gives an unfair and undue weight and is a misrepresentation of the topic.

Wikipedia does not appeal only to Turkish viewers hence I see no reason why the title should be changed now. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 14:52, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand very well. İn that case, the title should be commutative. But if you are insistent about the title, you must change epicenter info. the article contains wrong information about epicenter. Kahramanmaraş earthquakes happend Kahramanmaraş province, not Gaziantep. At least fix this the wrong infor 178.247.113.107 (talk) 16:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because of your article contains wrong information. Your viewers (not Turkish) learn wrong data. Please, exploration the “historical earthquakes” event and then write correct sentence. 178.247.113.107 (talk) 16:54, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You know nothing John Snow 😂 176.88.122.46 (talk) 19:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With that f**k*ss attitude, don't expect any Wikipedians to attend to whatever queries or request you raise, however valid it is.

Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 22:06, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deadliest natural disaster in modern history?

Why does the article state, that it is the deadliest natural disaster in modern history? 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami? 130.225.188.128 (talk) 08:58, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The full sentence reads: "It is the deadliest earthquake in what is now present-day Turkey since the 526 Antioch earthquake and the deadliest natural disaster in its modern history." It refers to Turkey's modern history so there's no issue with the sentence. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 09:05, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann ^(Talk) 20:27, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Turkey–Syria earthquake → 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquakes – Since this was last discussed, a large number of scientific publications have appeared (currently 61 in number - they can be viewed by clicking on the isc link in the infobox) and the majority (>70%) of these refer to (in order of use) "earthquakes", "earthquake doublet" or "earthquake sequence" in the title with less than a quarter (23%) using "earthquake". Based on this there is enough evidence to support a change to "earthquakes" in the title as proposed per WP:COMMONNAME Mikenorton (talk) 20:02, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: To make it easier, here is the link being referred to at washington.edu. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:05, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support: even though I did not notice the first one Chidgk1 (talk) 08:36, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Should’ve never been named as a singular earthquake anyway. Both earthquakes are separate technically and in terms of impacts and on the media it is named plurally. It’s a good call to rename it to ‘earthquakes’ instead of ‘earthquake’. Reego 41 18:01, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There was too many sources at the time calling it a single earthquake which was the problem. That and the fact that the article had already been edited over 350 times prior to the 7.7 earthquake. Kinda hard to call it earthquakes before the second one hits. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:06, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At the time great emphasis was placed on the USGS referring to the second earthquake as an aftershock. I note that they now refer to the two largest shocks as the "M 7.8 - Pazarcik earthquake, Kahramanmaras earthquake sequence" and the "M 7.5 - Elbistan earthquake, Kahramanmaras earthquake sequence". Mikenorton (talk) 10:24, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral: I'm fine with it staying as "earthquake", but I can agree and understand it being "earthquakes" instead. Quake1234 (talk) 13:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per above. Aintabli (talk) 20:03, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Recent death toll by AFP citing Turkish officials

A new article by AFP citing Turkey officials said the total death toll is 59,488 including 53,537 in Turkey.

The article then says the number of deaths in Syria is 4,537 in rebel-held areas and 1,414 in government-held areas.

Currently the Wikipedia article states 8,476 deaths in Syria according to IBC published in April 2023. SOHR puts the total toll at 6,795; 4,547 in rebel-held area and 2,248 in government-held area.

Considering the humanitarian crisis in Syria prior to the earthquake, the death toll discrepancy is not a huge surprise. However I want to know how should Wikipedia go around this. Should we provide a range for the death toll in Syria or follow the latest AFP article? Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 13:04, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article is at 400,000 characters

It's slow to load and probably exceeds recommended article length. I'm proposing that the "Reactions" section be split off into its own article. That will improve the situation, but with just under 50,000 characters removed, this would only be a start. With no objections, I'll perform the split in a few weeks. Dawnseeker2000 23:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]