Talk:2023 Special Honours

Gallantry Medals/Commendations for Bravery

The individuals listed on this page were announced as receiving the Queen's Gallantry Medal, and indeed were highly-publicised as the last recipients of the QGM approved by Elizabeth II before she died.

As that is what the official Government press release has specified, I feel that they ought to be referred to as such on this page, not changed to King's Gallantry Medal, which is inaccurate, and not what they have been awarded.

Opening up this discussion to avoid an edit war - thoughts welcome. OGBC1992 (talk) 11:15, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

I don’t believe an edit was was ever going to start on this, which is why I already took this to talk on your talk page, not sure why we need an additional discussion on it active.

The name of the award has changed as shown on the cabinet office website. I believe the section should reflect the current name of the award, not the former. Other than that I won’t object to the section listing the former name, but if new recipients are later added it should change and a note be added to the march list stating they were awarded in that manner.

also it’s only been publicised within the UK, where I am not, the notice is the only thing I’ve seen of it which doesn’t give a date the awards were authorised. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 23:18, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

The linked source calls it "Queen's" and shows a picture of the medal which also says "Queens" right on it (and has a QEII effigy on it) and says they were nominated by the queen, not the king. Plus it is written in a past-tense, not present-tense, sense, so we don't know when they received it or were approved for it. If someone was to get it NOW going forward it would be "King's" but these seem very clearly to be "Queen's". IF over the course of this year Charles approves some Kings M/CfB we can worry about how to categories it then (whether a combined header or 2 separate headers), but for now it's 100% Queens as far as I can see. Gecko G (talk) 00:30, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

[1] Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 02:30, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I read over the other official statement. "Recipients will be awarded either The Queen’s Gallantry Medal or The Queen’s Commendation for Bravery, with future awards to be approved by His Majesty The King and taking his name. This is the first list of recipients since May 2021. Today’s awards are particularly special as they are from the final Civilian Gallantry List to be approved by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, after 70 years of awards." I personally would have just lead with that, it avoids confusion and states theses are the last awards to bear 'Queen'. [2] Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 02:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

It seems like a needless complication, but I'm not strongly opposed. My 2cents suggestion would be to keep it simple and call it Queen's and then If there's future awarding's within this year, which do not fall on one of the other lists, then that quote could be added to clarify, But until then it seems to be needless clutter in my view.

(edit conflict) I see you already changed it back to Queen's Gecko G (talk) 03:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I think this solution makes the most sense. FWIW @Nford24 I wasn't accusing you of edit warring, but I felt it warranted a more open discussion (I disagreed but didn't want to just revert without talk!) All the best. OGBC1992 (talk) 08:56, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Imperial Service Medal

Is it right to simply put a list to the 14 March appointments via citation - with other honours list articles, we include the recipients in full, even when they are non-notable and the award is fairly minor (BEM, for example)?

It might extend the page significantly but it seems the fairest thing. OGBC1992 (talk) 11:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Lord in Waiting and Equerries

These are honorary positions at the court of the monarch, and have not been included in these lists for previous years. I am inclined to suggest they are not included here. Takvaal (talk) 08:24, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Certainly, being an Equerry is more of a 'job' than an 'honour', as I understand it? My knowledge of Lords-in-Waiting is lesser, but yes, I'd be inclined to agree with @Takvaal. OGBC1992 (talk) 08:47, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

The intro currently says the list includes ...and other honours awarded outside the New Years Honours and Birthday Honours.. So either A) show how these don't qualify as such, or B) determine why they've been excluded in previous years lists (and if that reasoning still stands), or better yet, C) have the larger discussion to define what is or is not meant to be included on these lists?' (and how to convey that inclusion criteria on the article itself). Gecko G (talk) 20:34, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I did add the sections, and I should say off the bat that I have no issues if its decided to remove the sections. There are a number of things that happen during a coronation year, namely rare appointments are made to long-standing vacant 'ancient' officers, I'd regard such appointments as honours in the same fashion as the Lords Lieutenant and Privy Council appointees which are featured on (I believe) every similar list).

For the Extra Equerries, from what I can gather appointments are far and few between and the only reason we have a large list is due to the coronation, likewise the Lord in Waiting is an honour made to some retired senior household officials.

The other appointments we may see this year, though technically speculative are; Lord High Steward, Lord High Constable of England and Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 01:58, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I see the point raised by Gecko G, and there are good arguments to include them to give a full picture. I am still uncertain, however, mostly because there will probably be many other courtiers announced this year. If we include Lords-in-Waiting and Equerries, then one could argue all court positions should regularly be included. There are other pages listing the Household of King Charles and Queen Camilla. Takvaal (talk) 15:14, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

They might be appointments, but are they honours? That seems to me to be the crux of the matter. We don't inclued Equerries etc. in templates like this one. And if we are including appointments, why not Cabinet appointments, and other ministerial positions? OGBC1992 (talk) 20:06, 21 April 2023 (UTC)