Talk:2019 Spa-Francorchamps Formula 2 round

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Feature Race Result

The Feature Race should be included as it did occur and the race was not cancelled before it began. There was a stop to the race after the completion of one complete lap. If a second lap had been completed under the regulations, points would have been awarded, albeit only half points, but they would have been awarded. Not including this gives off an impression it never occurred and never happened. Sparkle1 (talk) 09:06, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"If a second lap had been completed under the regulations, points would have been awarded, albeit only half points, but they would have been awarded."

But that second lap was not completed, so half points were not awarded, and thus the table has no value. We're an encyclopaedia—we don't speculate on possible futures here. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 09:49, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That is subjective as to what is the meaning of value here. The problem is the race started, the race was stopped at a point before points were awarded. The issues being made out here is that the race is being made out not to have existed at all. The race was not cancelled in the same way that Sprint Race was. The failure to include the standard table of the outcome of the race implies no race at all in the same way as there being no Sprint Race. The race started, the race stopped. The race did not complete enough for points or a trophy to be handed out, but it did happen.Sparkle1 (talk) 10:32, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"The race did not complete enough for points or a trophy to be handed out, but it did happen"

Nobody is denying that the race started. However, it was stopped before a result could be recorded. Thus there is no need for a table in the "results" section. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 11:14, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There was a result it just did not lead to points or a trophy being awarded. The race started, the race resulted in a finish in the pits after one lap was completed. I think a wider input is needed here as this will not resolve with just two individuals. Sparkle1 (talk) 11:24, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"The race started, the race resulted in a finish in the pits after one lap was completed."

Not according to the regulations, which state that the race was abandoned before a result could be recorded. The race was not finished because it was abandoned. Hence presenting a table in the "result" section is inappropriate.

Furthermore, the article goes into detail as to why and how the race was abandoned. To present the table this way contradicts the rest of the article; even if it did not contradict the article, it would still be completely redundant. It is effectively a large, empty table that serves no purpose as whatever new information is does provide—such as the running order at the time the race was suspended—is of little to no encyclopaedic value. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 12:21, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) It depends on if there is an official classification. In my opinion if an official race classification was published then we should include the table with the results in the article, if there isn't an official classification (as in this case (see here)) then inserting a classification table would be original research, therefore this article shouldn't include a race classification table, but others might in the future, even if no points are awarded.
SSSB (talk) 12:21, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If it is of any help, I think the situation at 2011 IZOD IndyCar World Championship is similar in that the race was abandoned before points were awarded. In that case, the table is of the last classification available; I don’t know if there is a source showing the running order after one lap. Willsome429 (say hey or see my edits!) 13:51, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We should avoid threading into committing original research by reporting what we think should be the case through a synthesis of the regulations. We should simply reflect the facts. The fact is that the sports governing body has not issued a result of the race in question at all. There is no result for the feature race in the championship standings other than De Vries receiving four points for a pole position. Thus the positions at the end of lap 1 were not used to make an actual race classification. Neither points, nor positions were actually credited. The latter is an important fact as regardless of the awarding of points the achievement of a certain position could be decisive in case one or more drivers or teams end up with the same number of points at the end of the championship. Since the prose already adequately explains the aftermath of the fatal accident and the not declaring of a result, I believe we should not include a results table here for that race. On a side note, I don't think the IndyCar example is very helpful as that deals with different sport governed by a different governing body using different regulations.T v x1 20:57, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion - mark the race A for abandoned in tables. Mjroots (talk) 20:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mjroots: I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Could you expand? Perhaps include an example table to indicate what you mean?
SSSB (talk) 20:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For example, in the drivers' articles and the season article. The race is currently marked C for cancelled, but it wasn't cancelles insofar as a) it started and b) 4 points were awarded for pole (AIUI). Thus Hubert's article would show SPA as A and blank, whereas other drivers articles would show as A and C. Mjroots (talk) 20:45, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]