Talk:August 2012 Sinai attack/GA1
GA Review
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Reviewer: Osiris (talk · contribs) 02:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Checklist
[edit]- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and verifiable.
- a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
- Almost all sources are news articles, which is pretty unavoidable, but there is a reasonable diversity in publishers.
- a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (major aspects): b (focused):
- I'm obviously still reading through it in detail, but from my cursory reading of the article it's certainly covered everything that needs to be. Whether it includes any extraneous detail is something that I will need to weigh up at the end.
- a (major aspects): b (focused):
- It follows the neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation of reliable sources. Use of in-text attribution is excellent.
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- Debates seem resolved. Static material has been moved to another article without compromising the coverage of this one, so content should remain stable from here onwards.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- I was a little concerned about the accuracy of the license tag on the first image, but it's been proven to me elsewhere so all of the images are fine. I've also added alternative text.
- a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- Pass/Fail:
Some preliminary comments
[edit]Interesting article. The language is fine, and the coverage is complete. I think moving the material on the ongoing operations to another article was a good decision, and the content of this article should remain stable as a result.
I've only reviewed up to the end of the first section for now, but there's a pressing issue that needs to be dealt with before I go any further. Parts of this first section contain serious close paraphrasing. Most of the section is fine, but there are some paragraphs that I've identified as problematic – the last two paragraphs about warnings prior to the attack, the report from Haaretz, and the bit about Aviv Kochavi. These need to be rephrased or completely rewritten. You might find it easier to integrate the information from these paragraphs into other paragraphs, if that makes sense. After you've done that, check through the rest of the article to see if there are any other parts that might reasonably be considered someone else's work. If you need some other tips on rectifying close paraphrasing, let me know and I'll give you some links. Osiris (talk) 07:33, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Review
[edit]Extended content
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Section 1
[edit]Resolved
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Thank you for this. --Activism1234 23:39, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've rewritten the paragraphs which you said are problematic. Hopefully they are good now. I am working on the other bullet points now. --Activism1234 23:59, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
- I went through a few references and changed the format. If there are others I missed, let me know. --Activism1234 00:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've removed some wikilinks that already existed and wikilinked others the first time they appeared (such as Bedouin). Let me know if I missed any. --Activism1234 00:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've removed the "set off alarms" part. --Activism1234 00:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- I changed the serial comma in the IDF division (I actually noticed it while making some other edits before reading this!) I also noticed it in other places, and fixed it there (such as in the August 2011 attack). --Activism1234 00:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- I don't have any issue with you fixing grammatical errors when you notice them. --Activism1234 00:27, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've reworded the second paragraph in the background section. I hope that it's better.
- What was meant by the source saying the identities weren't found is that they don't know the names of who did it, but it's clearly militants who would do this (such an attack would make them a militant). I've added two other referenses though that explicitly write "militants" in the headlines, which should make it better. --Activism1234 00:34, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- In regards to the number of deaths, I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but perhaps this CNN ref (in the article) will clear it up. Essentially, a minimum of 7 dead were reported in some of the refs used. 1 of the refs mentions a Golani officer was killed, which is true. The same media outlet, in a different ref, later reported that a special operations police officer was killed as well, which is also true. In total, as the CNN report shows, 8 were killed. --Activism1234 00:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've changed the word "borderline" to "Russo feared that soldiers at positions on the Egyptian-Israeli border near the Kerem Shalom border crossing would come under attack..." --Activism1234 00:41, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- I capitalized all the words in Yamam. I believe that the IDF brigade is one brigade and that's the name for it, as that's how the reference wrote it. --Activism1234 00:42, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Resolved
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- Thanks for telling me about that Duplication Detector tool!
- I rewrote the paragraph, using your version as a basis.
- Take your time, there's no rush.
- Thanks. --Activism1234 16:37, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Section 2
[edit]- The ordinal 35 will need to be spelled out in full as long as it's kept at the beginning of the sentence. It's a MOS thing.
- Is there an error in the distance covered? The article says "100 meters", but the corresponding fact in the source gives "about a kilometer". Can you please clarify?
- Which source are you referring to? The sentence's reference is found in the next sentence (the reference applies for both sentences) (ref name="Blow by blow"), and it mentions 100 meters. --Activism1234 04:11, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- I know this is frustrating, but I really need you to go through the rest of the article and check it for close paraphrasing. Most of this section is okay, but one sentence was well over the line:
- The article : Israeli troops were alerted to a possible breach of the border just minutes before the attackers crossed the border, following intelligence that an Egyptian border patrol post had been surrounded.
- The source: The forces were alerted to a possible breach of the border minutes before the terrorist vehicle crossed the fence, following intelligence indicating that an Egyptian border patrol post had been surrounded.
- All right, I've rewrote that one, hopefully it's better. I'll go through some other sections, I don't know if I'll have time tonight though as it's late and I'm busy right now, but hopefully in the morning. --Activism1234 04:11, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your patience. Will do more later. Osiris (talk) 03:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you for your help! --Activism1234 04:11, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hey. Let me know when you've finished with this. There's another one right at the beginning of the next section:
- Israel and Egypt believe that the attack was carried out by fighters from a global jihad network who are receiving assistance from local Bedouins in exchange for money.
- Israel and Egypt estimate that the attack was carried by terrorists from global jihad, who are receiving assistance from local Bedouins in exchange for money.
- I know it's frustrating. If you want me to put the review on hold for a while I can. I'll do a quick copyedit for grammar in the meantime. I've also added alternative text for the images, and started marking it off against the criteria. Osiris (talk) 06:46, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- Sure sorry I didnt' get to it, hopefully I'll get to it today and then I'll just notify you quickly, shouldn't take too long though. I'm not familiar with the GA review though - what's the difference between the gray and green icons you posted above? Thanks. --Activism1234 15:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, the grey just means I haven't assessed those points yet. Green means it's checked off. Osiris (talk) 03:54, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hey. Let me know when you've finished with this. There's another one right at the beginning of the next section:
I went through some of it now and changed some wording. I also split some of the paragraphs based on who said it or the category of the statement (nothing major), and removed 1/2 a sentence in the Egyptian section that wasn't part of Egypt's reaction. I'll go through the rest later hopefully. --Activism1234 16:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I've recently been going through some passages and changing around the wording a bit. I think that most would've been fine anyway, but always safe to be sure. Didn't go through all of them, but got some done. --Activism1234 05:19, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Section 3
[edit]I'm having some issues with prose. There's a lot of word repetition, which is corrupting the flow... ("Responsibility for the attack was initially unclear, as no group claimed responsibility.") There are parts where each sentence seems to be constructed in a way that makes it stand out on its own, rather than depending on its paragraph to form a natuarally flowing syntax. As an example, in the section titled "Egypt", each sentence individually makes it implicit that we're reading about the reaction in Egypt ("the Egyptian government", "Egyptian Prime Minister", "Morsi ordered Egyptian security forces"). While it's good to make things clear where there might be confusion, overdoing this will hinder rather than help the reader. Even within certain sentences, there is sometimes a superfluous adjective ("a North Sinai Egyptian security official"), or repetition of what's already been implied ("The Egyptian government indefinitely closed the Rafah border crossing to the Gaza Strip, which is a border crossing between Egypt and Gaza.") Use the advantage of wikilinks to defer unrelated explanations, such as the description of the iftar meal, which results in a lengthy, complex-compound sentence.
If you'd like, I can do a copyedit of the section to formulate the flow a bit better. Would that be okay? The good news is that I didn't find any copyright problems in this section. Osiris (talk) 18:51, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- Sure that's fine. I'll go through it in the meantime and remove words like "The Egyptian government" because, as you said, that's obvious - it's the name of the section. --Activism1234 18:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- Great! I'll get started. Osiris (talk) 19:02, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- I changed some of the stuff you requested (I truly hope you weren't editing at the same time, otherwise you'll have a really bad edit conflict... Sorry if that's the case!) --Activism1234 19:05, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- Looks good! No conflicts, I'm too sloooow for that ;) Osiris (talk) 22:34, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- No worries. I won't be back until tomorrow night, but feel free to fix up whatever you'd like and continue the review here, and I'll respond when I get back. Thanks! --Activism1234 22:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- Looks good! No conflicts, I'm too sloooow for that ;) Osiris (talk) 22:34, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- I changed some of the stuff you requested (I truly hope you weren't editing at the same time, otherwise you'll have a really bad edit conflict... Sorry if that's the case!) --Activism1234 19:05, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- Great! I'll get started. Osiris (talk) 19:02, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
There's a bit at the end of the section on "Palestinians" that seems as though it's liable to change. Has it changed, or should I tag it as dated information? Osiris (talk) 18:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
- As far as I know, Egypt's blockade has continued. There were some reports about 6 days ago from some sources that it reopened, but a more recent article I read in a reliable source (can't remember it) said it's still closed. If it changes though, it shouldn't really affect the stability of the article - just writing "On ___, Egypt reopened the ___..." --Activism1234 00:42, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
- Took a look on Google. It looks like it might have been reopened on 25 August??? I'll let you do the digging, just wanted to make sure it's not outdated. I was away for the weekend, but hopefully should get this review wrapped up during the week. Osiris (talk) 14:12, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Break
[edit]Okay, I've checked off a few items, but there's no way I can judge some of these things when I'm still finding closely paraphrased content.
Extended content
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Even just reading through casually, there are parts that just sound like someone else's work, like they've come directly from a news article. It's not enough to simply change around the wording, and the problem appears to be extensive. There's no plagiarism, because attribution has been given in the text. But because these are copyrighted sources, the material simply can't be reproduced.
At this point, I'm wondering whether this nomination might fare better being resubmitted after a more thorough look into its issues with copyrights. Collaborative efforts to address the problem using the advice at Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing would be the best approach. I'm happy to help where I can and give some advice, or if you'd like some extra eyes there are a number of names of users active in copyright cleanup I can give you. Osiris (talk) 10:49, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
- I've fixed the paraphrasing issue in the extended content section. The only remaining thing after Russia is the reaction of the U.S., so I don't think you'll find much more paraphrasing. --Activism1234 20:50, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. But as I said, it's not enough to just substitute some words for others. Once it's in there, close paraphrasing doesn't go away easily, and I saw it in pretty much every paragraph. In such a long article, I don't know whether I've caught them all. But – and I have to be blunt here – it's not up to me to find these things. It shouldn't have been in a good article nomination to begin with. I'm supposed to be reviewing whether the article meets the criteria for good articles, not whether it meets the most basic principles of Wikipedia.
With that said, here is another
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The problem is still in there, when I look for it. It's not going away easily. And since I don't know whether we've got them all, I have to fail this. It needs to be cleaned more thoroughly, preferrably with a collaborative effort and with an eye on the links and advice here.
I really do apologise, because it's quite obvious how much time and effort you've put into this article. Most other thing are fine. But it needs a thorough clean to be copyright compliant. Osiris (talk) 12:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)