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Natalia Veselnitskaya

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In this name that follows Eastern Slavic naming customs, the patronymic is Vladimirovna and the family name is Veselnitskaya.
Natalia Veselnitskaya
Veselnitskaya attends a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on Russia in 2016.
Born
Natalia Vladimirovna Veselnitskaya

(1975-02-22) 22 February 1975 (age 49)
Kramatorsk, Donetsk Oblast, Ukrainian SSR (nowadays Ukraine)
Alma materMoscow State Legal Academy
OccupationLawyer
Known for
Spouse
Aleksandr Mitusov
​
(divorced)​
Websiteveselnitskaya.info

Natalia Vladimirovna Veselnitskaya (Russian: Ната́лья Влади́мировна Весельни́цкая, IPA: [nɐˈtalʲjə vʲɪsʲɪlʲˈnʲitskəjə]; born 22 February 1975 Kramatorsk, Donetsk Oblast, Ukrainian SSR, Soviet Union) is a Russian lawyer. Her clients include Pyotr Katsyv, an official in the state-owned Russian Railways, and his son Denis Katsyv, whom she defended against a money laundering charge in New York.[1][2] On 8 January 2019, Veselnitskaya was indicted in the United States with obstruction of justice charges for allegedly having attempted to thwart the Justice Department investigation into the money laundering charges against Katsyv.[3]

Her June 2016 meeting with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort in Trump Tower attracted attention in connection with the Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections,[4][5][6][7] as well as to the role of her business contacts at the research firm Fusion GPS in investigating the interference.[8]

Education and career

[edit]

Veselnitskaya has said that she graduated with distinction from the Moscow State Legal Academy in 1998.[9][non-primary source needed] She attests that she was then employed for a period by the prosecutor's office in Moscow Oblast, where she worked on legislation,[9] and claims to have won over 300 legal cases.[10] Veselnitskaya switched to private practice, focusing on land deals in the expanding Moscow suburbs.[10]

Veselnitskaya is a long-time lawyer for Pyotr Katsyv, who is the vice president of the state-owned Russian Railways, and was formerly the Moscow region's minister of transportation.[10] In 2008, the Russian journalist Vladimir Solovyov accused Veselnitskaya and her stepdaughter of orchestrating unusual court decisions regarding land in Moscow.[10] Veselnitskaya successfully sued Spravedlivost, an anti-corruption nonprofit, for defamation after it accused her, her former husband, and Katsyv of seizing land using government connections.[10] Her claims that land owned by IKEA was actually owned by an old collective farm were ultimately dismissed by the Supreme Court of Russia.[10] Veselnitskaya's law firm Kamerton Consulting represented a Russian military unit's interests in a property dispute case from 2005 to 2013.[11]

In an interview with NBC News in April 2017, Veselnitskaya said that she was both a lawyer and an informant who provided Yury Chaika, the Russian prosecutor general, with information since 2013.[12]

Advocacy against the Magnitsky Act

[edit]
See also: Trump Tower meeting

In 2009, Sergei Magnitsky, a tax accountant who had accused Moscow law enforcement of stealing $230 million in tax rebates from his client, was beaten to death in jail. In 2012, Magnitsky's client, Bill Browder, secured passage of the American Magnitsky Act, which imposed sanctions on the officials involved.[10] Russian President Vladimir Putin responded with the Dima Yakovlev Law banning Americans from adopting Russian children.[10]

In February 2015, the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative was created in Delaware.[13][14] Rinat Akhmetshin, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Russia, who has worked as a Washington lobbyist since 1998, agreed to lobby for the foundation backed by Denis Katsyv.[15][16] From 1986 to 1988, Akmetshin served in the Soviet Army, where he obtained the rank of sergeant and worked in a counterintelligence unit for the KGB.[15] Veselnitskaya's campaign included an unsuccessful attempt in Washington to repeal the Magnitsky Act and to "keep Mr. Magnitsky’s name off the law".[4]

On 9 June 2016, Veselnitskaya met with Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner in Trump Tower, which they scheduled after Emin Agalarov's publicist, Rob Goldstone, told Donald Jr. that she was a "Russian government attorney" offering incriminating information on Hillary Clinton due to "its government’s support for Mr. Trump". Regarding the meeting, Trump Jr. initially wrote, "I love it" but, in July 2017, said the meeting "was a waste of time".[17][18] Donald Trump Jr. said that Veselnitskaya used the meeting to criticize the Magnitsky Act.[19] Veselnitskaya herself commented that she mostly talked about Browder's (alleged) misdeeds, whereas the Trump team wanted what she termed "some sort of grenade".[20]

Akhmetshin said he met with Veselnitskaya for lunch and she asked him to attend the meeting, which he then did.[21] According to Akhmetshin, Veselnitskaya's translator, Anatoli Samachornov, also attended.[15] He said Veselnitskaya left a document with Trump Jr.[21]

Also on or around 9 June, prior to and following the Trump Tower meeting, Veselnitskaya met with Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn R. Simpson, ostensibly related to hearings that involved their mutual client Denis Katsyv, concerning charges of Russian tax fraud and money laundering originally uncovered by Magnitsky. The Simpson–Veselnitskaya meetings were denied by Veselnitskaya herself but confirmed by Simpson's lawyer. This has led to speculation from Trump allies linking the meetings to Fusion GPS's concurrent work assembling the Steele Dossier against then-candidate Trump.[8][22]

Two days after the Trump Tower meeting, the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation (who Akhmetshin worked for, as a lobbyist) registered to lobby Congress on the Magnitsky Act.[15]

Later that June, Veselnitskaya screened a film by Andrei Nekrasov at the Newseum in Washington, D.C., that was critical of Magnitsky.[10] She was "deeply involved in the making of The Magnitsky Act – Behind the Scenes".[23] She provided the film crew with "the real proofs and records of testimony" according to RussiaTV5,[4][24] a "station whose owners are known to be close to Mr. Putin".[citation needed] In April 2016, the European Parliament refused to show this film about Magnitsky on the basis that it was "pro-Russian propaganda".[25]

Veselnitskaya represented Pyotr Katsyv's son, Denis, when Preet Bharara, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, charged him with money laundering.[10] Federal prosecutors accused Katsyv of using Manhattan real estate deals to launder money stolen from Browder's Hermitage Capital Management.[26][27] The Russian government then banned Bharara from traveling there.[26]

A House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on "U.S. Policy Toward Putin's Russia" on 14 June 2016. Former U.S. ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul testified as Veselnitskaya sat behind him.

In October 2015, Veselnitskaya traveled to Manhattan with her clients for a deposition in the money laundering case.[28] After being told, at the end of the deposition, that the counterparty would be required to reimburse her for her expenses, she billed the U.S. government $50,000, for an $800 meal, eight grappas, and a $995-per-night room at the Plaza Hotel.[29]

According to Swiss news sources, a Swiss agent and Russia specialist from the Federal Office of Police, investigating the Prevezon transaction from a Magnitsky Act violation, travelled privately to Moscow in December 2016 with his diplomatic passport, where he met Veselnitskaya. The meeting was apparently set up by Russian Deputy Attorney General Saak Albertovich Karapetyan. Because the officer, known only as Victor K., visited Russia without the knowledge of his Swiss superiors, and part of his stay in a Moscow luxury hotel was financed by Russian officials, the man was later dismissed, suspected of abuse of office, violation of official secrecy and corruption.[30][31][32][33] During an unauthorized flight, Karapetyan died in a helicopter crash north-east of Moscow in March 2019.[34]

President Donald Trump fired Bharara on 11 March 2017 and Jeff Sessions replaced him with Joon Kim as the acting US Attorney for the southern district of New York during the rest of the case.[35][36] In May 2017, the international money laundering case was settled with Katsyv's company, Prevezon Holdings, which was represented by Louis Freeh, paying $6 million (without any admission of wrongdoing).[2][10] The settlement was for less than 3% of the amount prosecutors had initially sought.[26][37][38][a] In November 2017, Katsyv's company Prevezon stated that it would pay the fine using money from AFI Europe which is a subsidiary of Lev Leviev's Africa Israel Investments.[38]

In March 2017, Senator Chuck Grassley filed a complaint alleging that the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative foundation, Akhmetshin, Prevezon Holdings, and Fusion GPS had violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act.[42][43]

In a 14 July 2017, interview with The Wall Street Journal, Veselnitskaya acknowledged that she was in regular contact with the Russian prosecutor general's office and with Prosecutor General Yury Chaika "while waging a campaign against U.S. sanctions".[17][44][12]

On 3 November 2017, a judge denied a request for Veselnitskaya to enter the U.S. to attend hearings related to the money laundering case.[45]

On 8 January 2019, Veselnitskaya was indicted for obstruction of justice by the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, in connection with a 2015 money laundering case.[46] She was accused of submitting an intentionally misleading statement to the court – a report exonerating her client Katsyv which she claimed was the result of an investigation by the Russian government, when in fact she had helped to draft the report.[47][48][49][50][51] Veselnitskaya was believed to be in Russia at the time of the indictment and is unlikely to appear in a U.S. court as Russia does not extradite its citizens to other countries.[46][52]

On 11 April 2016, while on a trip to Moscow, Dana Rohrabacher obtained from Yuri Chaika a confidential memo of accusations against prominent donors to the Democratic Party. Veselnitskaya delivered a very similar document, with some portions word for word the same, at the Trump Tower meeting on 9 June 2016.[53][54] He met with Rinat Akhmetshin in Berlin to discuss Prevezon and later Rohrabacher was a staunch supporter of Prevezon's interests.[55][56] According to Barry Meier, Veselnitskaya and Denis Katsyv received critical information for Prevezon from Glenn Simpson and his Fusion GPS which had been hired to support her efforts through Mark Cymrot and John Moscow of the BakerHostetler law firm. Because of these actions, Bill Browder believed that the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) had been violated.[47][51][57][58][49]: timeline 

Personal life

[edit]

Veselnitskaya was formerly married to Aleksandr Mitusov, a former deputy transportation minister of the Moscow area while Petr Katsyv, Denis Katsyv's father, was the main director.[4][10][59]

U.S. indictment

[edit]

In January 2019, Veselnitskaya was charged with one count of obstruction of justice.[60]

See also

[edit]

Notes

[edit]
  1. ^ Prevezon's attorney Louis Freeh was Director of the FBI from September 1, 1993, until June 25, 2001.[37][38][39] In May 2018, Freeh purchased a $9.38 million home from Armen A. Manoogian in Palm Beach, Florida, near Mar-a-Lago where Freeh often attended events.[40][41]

References

[edit]
  1. ^ Motlagh, Jason (31 December 2015). "Fighting Putin Doesn't Make You a Saint". The New Republic. Retrieved 15 July 2017.
  2. ^ a b "Acting Manhattan U.S. Attorney Announces $5.9 Million Settlement Of Civil Money Laundering And Forfeiture Claims Against Real Estate Corporations Alleged To Have Laundered Proceeds Of Russian Tax Fraud". United States Department of Justice. 12 May 2017. Retrieved 12 July 2017.
  3. ^ Weiser, Benjamin (8 January 2019). "Veselnitskaya, Russian in Trump Tower Meeting, Is Charged in Case That Shows Kremlin Ties". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 1 April 2022. Retrieved 16 April 2022.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (link)
  4. ^ a b c d Becker, Jo; Apuzzo, Matt; Goldman, Adam (8 July 2017). "Trump Team Met With Lawyer Linked to Kremlin During Campaign". The New York Times. Retrieved 8 July 2017.
  5. ^ Hofmann, James (11 July 2017). "The Daily 202: Email to Donald Trump Jr. could be a smoking gun, as Russia connections deepen". The Washington Post.
  6. ^ "Donald Trump Jr met Russian lawyer after promise of information on Hillary Clinton". The Guardian. 9 July 2017.
  7. ^ Simmons, Kier; Elbaum, Rachel; Rafferty, Andrew (11 July 2017). "Russian Lawyer Who Met With Trump Jr.: I Didn't Have Clinton Info They Wanted". NBC News.
  8. ^ a b Flegenheimer, Matt (8 January 2018). "Fusion GPS Founder Hauled From the Shadows for the Russia Election Investigation". The New York Times. Retrieved 24 January 2018.
  9. ^ a b "Declaration of Natalia Veselnitskaya, United States v. Prevezon Holdings Ltd, No. 13-cv-06326 (TPG) (S.D.N.Y. 5 January 2016)". Scribd. Retrieved 12 July 2017.
  10. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l MacFarquhar, Neil; Kramer, Andrew E. (12 July 2017). "Natalia Veselnitskaya, Lawyer Who Met Trump Jr., Seen as Fearsome Moscow Insider". The New York Times. p. A1. Archived from the original on 12 July 2017. Retrieved 12 July 2017.
  11. ^ Tsvetkova, Maria; Stubbs, Jack (21 July 2017). "Exclusive: Moscow lawyer who met Trump Jr. had Russian spy agency as client". Reuters. Retrieved 21 July 2017.
  12. ^ a b Kramer, Andrew; LaFraniere, Sharon (27 April 2018). "Lawyer Who Was Said to Have Dirt on Clinton Had Closer Ties to Kremlin Than She Let On". The New York Times. Retrieved 27 September 2019.
  13. ^ Weiss, Michael (18 May 2016). "Putin's Dirty Game in the U.S. Congress". The Daily Beast. Retrieved 15 July 2017.
  14. ^ Hermitage Capital Management (15 July 2016). "Complaint regarding the violation of US Lobbying Laws by the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation and others by Hermitage Capital Management" (PDF). Letter to Heather H. Hunt, Chief of the FARA Registration Unit. Archived from the original (PDF) on 25 January 2021. Retrieved 9 August 2023 – via the United States Senate website for Chuck Grassley.
  15. ^ a b c d Sullivan, Eileen; Vogel, Kenneth P.; Goldman, Adam; Becker, Jo (15 July 2017). "Russian-American Lobbyist Attended Meeting Organized by Trump's Son". The New York Times. p. A1. Retrieved 15 July 2017.
  16. ^ Weiss, Michael (4 May 2017). "US Congressman talks Russian money laundering with alleged ex-spy in Berlin". CNN. Retrieved 15 July 2017.
  17. ^ a b Greenwood, Max (14 July 2017). "Russian lawyer who met with Trump Jr. was in touch with top Russian prosecutor". The Hill. Retrieved 4 November 2017.
  18. ^ Becker, Jo; Goldman, Adam; Apuzzo, Matt (12 July 2017). "Russian Dirt on Clinton? 'I Love It,' Donald Trump Jr. Said". The New York Times. p. A1. Retrieved 12 July 2017.
  19. ^ Apuzzo, Matt; Becker, Jo; Goldman, Adam; Haberman, Maggie (11 July 2017). "Trump Jr. Was Told in Email of Russian Effort to Aid Campaign". The New York Times. p. A1. Retrieved 12 July 2017.
  20. ^ Jaffa, Joshua (13 August 2018). "How Bill Browder Became Russia's Most Wanted Man". The New Yorker. Retrieved 27 September 2019.
  21. ^ a b Helderman, Rosalind S.; Hamburger, Tom (15 July 2017). "Russian American lobbyist was present at Trump Jr.'s meeting with Kremlin-connected lawyer". The Washington Post. p. A1. Retrieved 15 July 2017.
  22. ^ "Fusion GPS official met with Russian operative before and after Trump Jr. sit-down". Fox News. 7 November 2017. Retrieved 24 January 2018.
  23. ^ Jozwiak, Rikard; Coalson, Robert (28 April 2016). "European TV Channel Puts Controversial Magnitsky Film On Hold". Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.
  24. ^ В Брюсселе сорван показ фильма о смерти Сергея Магнитского [Screening of film about death of Sergei Magnitsky disrupted in Brussels]. RussiaTV5 (in Russian). 28 April 2016. Retrieved 27 July 2018. Адвокат Наталья Весельницкая одна из тех, кто передала съёмочной группе реальные свидетельства и протоколы допросов. Всё это легло в основу фильма. [Lawyer Natalya Veselnitskaya is one of those who gave the film crew real evidence and interrogation protocols. All this formed the basis of the film.]
  25. ^ "Закон Магнитского. За кулисами": показ фильма отменили за несколько минут до премьеры ["The Magnitsky Act – Behind the scenes": film screening canceled a few minutes before premiere]. Retrieved 27 July 2018. Андрей выяснил, что Сергей Магнитский никакого расследования не проводил [Andrei found out that Sergei Magnitsky did not conduct any investigation]
  26. ^ a b c Feeley, Jef; Bob, Van Voris (13 May 2017). "Laundering Suit Ends as Russian Firm, U.S. Claim Victory". Bloomberg News. Retrieved 12 July 2017.
  27. ^ "United States of America v. Prevezon Holdings Ltd. et al". Justia Dockets & Filings. Retrieved 12 July 2017.
  28. ^ Weiss, Michael (9 December 2015). "Russians Stick U.S. With $50K Plaza Hotel Bar Bill". The Daily Beast. Retrieved 15 July 2017.
  29. ^ Thielman, Sam (10 July 2017). "Lawyer Who Met Don Jr. Was Key Player In High-Profile Money Laundering Case". Talking Points Memo. Retrieved 15 July 2017.
  30. ^ Hines, Nico (29 January 2018). "Trump Tower Russian Lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, Exposed in Swiss Corruption Case". The Daily Beast. Archived from the original on 20 May 2024. Retrieved 27 September 2019.
  31. ^ "The Swiss Connection – Court upholds Swiss investigator's dismissal due to Russian links". SWI swissinfo. 29 January 2018. Archived from the original on 20 May 2024. Retrieved 26 July 2018.
  32. ^ O'Dea, Clare (27 January 2013). "Shadow of Magnitsky case reaches Switzerland". SWI swissinfo. Archived from the original on 20 May 2024. Retrieved 20 May 2024.
  33. ^ O'Dea, Clare (27 January 2013). "Switzerland awash with money laundering cases". SWI swissinfo. Archived from the original on 20 May 2024. Retrieved 20 May 2024.
  34. ^ Hines, Nico (20 March 2019). "Russian Official Linked to Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Trump Tower Lawyer, Is Dead". The Daily Beast. Archived from the original on 24 November 2019. Retrieved 27 September 2019.
  35. ^ Yuhas, Alan (11 March 2017). "US attorney Preet Bharara fired after refusing Jeff Sessions' order to resign". The Guardian. Retrieved 8 August 2018.
  36. ^ Dienst, Jonathan; Connor, Tracy (3 January 2018). "Sessions uses executive authority to appoint interim U.S. attorneys". NBC News. Retrieved 25 January 2021.
  37. ^ a b Unger 2018, p. 218.
  38. ^ a b c Bertrand, Natasha (16 November 2017). "Former FBI director represented Russian firm at center of major money-laundering probe". Business Insider. Archived from the original on 8 April 2021. Retrieved 25 January 2021.
  39. ^ "Louis J. Freeh, September 1, 1993 – June 25, 2001". FBI website. Retrieved 25 January 2021.
  40. ^ Unger 2018, p. 219.
  41. ^ Hofheinz, Darrell (30 March 2018). "Deed: Ex-FBI head Louis Freeh linked to $9.38M home purchase". Palm Beach Daily News. Archived from the original on 2 February 2021. Retrieved 25 January 2021.
  42. ^ Grassley, Chuck (31 March 2017). "Complaint: Firm behind Dossier & Former Russian Intel Officer Joined Lobbying Effort to Kill Pro-Whistleblower Sanctions for Kremlin". Retrieved 15 July 2017 – via Grassley's United States Senate website.
  43. ^ "Letter from Senator Chuck Grassley, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, to Department of Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly" (PDF). Senate Judiciary Committee. 4 April 2017. Archived from the original (PDF) on 14 July 2017. Retrieved 15 May 2024.
  44. ^ Forrest, Brett; Sonne, Paul (14 July 2017). "Russian Lawyer Whom Trump Jr. Met Says She Was in Contact With Top Russian Prosecutor". The Wall Street Journal. Archived from the original on 15 July 2017. Retrieved 4 November 2017.
  45. ^ Pierson, Brendan (3 November 2017). "Judge denies request to return to U.S. by Russian lawyer who met Trump Jr". Reuters. Retrieved 8 January 2018.
  46. ^ a b Barrett, Devlin; Zapotosky, Matt (8 January 2019). "Russian lawyer at Trump Tower meeting charged in separate case". The Washington Post. Retrieved 27 September 2019.
  47. ^ a b Meier 2021, p. 248.
  48. ^ Winter, Tom; Engel, Richard (8 January 2019). "Russian lawyer at Trump Tower meeting charged with obstruction of justice". NBC News. Retrieved 9 January 2019.
  49. ^ a b Как Весельницкая контролировала прокуратуру [How Veselnitskaya controlled the prosecutor's office]. Центра «Досье» [dossier.center] (in Russian). 27 April 2018 [17 October 2017]. Archived from the original on 17 April 2022. Retrieved 9 August 2023.
  50. ^ Генеральная прокуратура: ГП РФ или ОПГ РФ? [Prosecutor General's Office: PG [Prosecutor General] of the RF [Russian Federation] or OCG [organized crime group] of the RF?]. Центра «Досье» [dossier.center] (in Russian). 3 October 2019 [26 July 2018]. Archived from the original on 17 April 2022. Retrieved 9 August 2023.
  51. ^ a b Forrest, Brett; Sonne, Paul (14 July 2017). "Russian Lawyer Whom Trump Jr. Met Says She Was in Contact With Top Russian Prosecutor: In interview, Natalia Veselnitskaya says she talked with Kremlin-appointed official about U.S. sanctions law". The Wall Street Journal. Archived from the original on 26 March 2022. Retrieved 16 April 2022.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (link)
  52. ^ Weiser, Benjamin; LaFraniere, Sharon (8 January 2019). "Veselnitskaya, Russian in Trump Tower Meeting, Is Charged in Case That Shows Kremlin Ties". The New York Times. Retrieved 27 September 2019.
  53. ^ Fandos, Nicholas (21 November 2017). "A Kremlin Defender in Congress Finds Challenges on All Sides". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 21 November 2017. Retrieved 16 April 2022.
  54. ^ LaFraniere, Sharon; Kramer, Andrew E. (27 October 2017). "Talking Points Brought to Trump Tower Meeting Were Shared With Kremlin". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 22 November 2017. Retrieved 16 April 2022.
  55. ^ Weiss, Michael (4 May 2017). "US Congressman talks Russian money laundering with alleged ex-spy in Berlin". CNN. Retrieved 16 April 2022.
  56. ^ Gray, Rosie (18 July 2017). "Russian Anti-Sanctions Campaign Turned to California Congressman: U.S. diplomats were concerned about Russian outreach to House Republican Dana Rohrabacher while on a trip to Moscow last year". The Atlantic. Retrieved 16 April 2022.
  57. ^ Dunleavy, Jerry (19 May 2021). "Book sheds light on ties between Russian intel-linked lawyer and Fusion GPS". The Washington Examiner. Archived from the original on 17 April 2022. Retrieved 16 April 2022.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown (link)
  58. ^ Адвокат Весельницкая раскрыла засекреченного свидетеля по делу об отмывании 230 млн долларов из российского бюджета [Lawyer Veselnitskaya revealed a secret witness in the case of laundering $230 million from the Russian budget]. Центра «Досье» [dossier.center] (in Russian). 14 October 2019 [13 October 2019]. Archived from the original on 17 April 2022. Retrieved 9 August 2023.
  59. ^ Sukhotin, Andrei (3 March 2012). Кто вертит дышло: В боях за подмосковную землю сошлись министры, воры в законе и "решалы" [Who turns the drawbar: In the battles for the land near Moscow, ministers, thieves and "Reshals" came together]. Novaya Gazeta (in Russian). Retrieved 21 January 2020.
  60. ^ Benjamin, Weiser; LaFraniere, Sharon (8 January 2019). "Veselnitskaya, Russian in Trump Tower Meeting, Is Charged in Case That Shows Kremlin Ties". The New York Times. Retrieved 9 August 2023.
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