Module talk:Location map/data/Jerusalem

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Israel

This module is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Palestine

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NPOV

As one can see in the history, these templates were previously only listed under Israel; I, however, added Palestine as well, since the status of (East) Jerusalem is disputed. It would seem to me that NPOV can only be guaranteed by covering both sides: meaning that here we will list these places are being in both Israel and Palestine. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 14:59, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why should we base on NPOV (or any POV) in a map template?. The countries border is recognized internationnally and when using a map it's not the goal to point to a dispute made by a country or another. There is an undisputed facts on the ground here and these facts are recognised by both the UN and by the International Court of Justice which deals with borders disputes:

Location map Old Jerusalem should be under:: Palestinian Territories occupied by Israel (Note that the 2 parties are mentioned (as you suggested above), each one for the role it plays in the map site, so it's not that we are "arguing facts on the ground")
Template:Location map East Central Jerusalem should be under: Palestinian territories occupied by israel
Template:Location map Jerusalem should be under: Israel (for it's west part) and under Palestinian territories occupied by israel (for it's east part). 3Princip (talk) 15:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Israel considers all of this to be Israeli territory, annexed under Israeli law. Israel is the power in charge on the ground; the Israeli police maintain law and order, Israeli law applies. Thus, for all practical purposes, it is Israel. International bodies disagree with Israel's right to these areas; however, that does not change the fact that, as an undisputed fact, Israel rules there and it is Israeli territory, like it or not. I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

Please clarify your "undisputed facts on the ground". I myself lived in Jerusalem for 6 years and am quite well aware of the situation there. I assure you that Israel rules over all of the Old City and all of East Jerusalem. From Israel's POV, it is not occupied territory - it is Israeli territory. The status of East Jerusalem, FYI, is different from the West Bank. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 16:40, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know that Israel is the power in charge on the ground. If it was not, I would not call the map "Palestinian territories occupied by israel" I would call it only "Palestinian territories"; this is my meaning for "undisputed fact on the ground" = IT IS a land controlled by Israel, and that's whay I added "Occupied by Israel"

When it comes to the land possession (not the land control), this is a matter of international recognition regarless the claims from both parts of the conflict. And that's why it's called "Palestinian territoties" for East Jerusalem and "Israel" for West Jerusalem.

By the way, I saw your page and I like your personality and may you can help me: I'm writing an article in arabic wikipedia about the Old Yishuv (but in an actual aspect, i.e. their nowaday communities in Israel). Too difficult to find informations (from both Israeli and Palestinian sources) the only comunity that I found informations about was the Samaritans --3Princip (talk) 23:23, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]