File talk:Yemen division 2011-10-23.svg

What about Houthi control in Sa'dah?Kermanshahi (talk) 17:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've been struggling with that issue. Sa'dah governorate does seem to be widely cited as "under control" of the Houthi rebels; however, I haven't decided how to best represent "control" on the province level, which is probably a different, more porous type of control than the city-level kind. For example, I seem to remember reading one source which said Saleh's government still staffs some installations such as border posts within Sa'dah. What would you suggest? Evzob (talk) 19:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, one problem with the map is that the term "Islamist militants" is not to accurate. What it seems to describe in this map is al-Qaeda related groups under the banner of Ansar al-Sharia, however the Houthis and the Islah are also Islamist and therefore their militias are infact also Islamist militias. Now the opposition against Saleh seems to be split in 4 factions, the JMP led by Islah, the Hashid tribes and defected soldiers under Ali Mohsen to which most Sunni protesters in places like Tai'z and Sana'a belong, the seperatist South Yemen Movement backed by some southern tribes and the Yemeni Socialist Party and have their own protesters, the Houthis backed by the Shi'a al-Haq party, some northern tribes and their own protesters (which have held seperate rallies in Sana'a), and the al-Qaeda related groups. Now I don't know of any cities under control of the SYM, but I think either a distinction should be made between the JMP, the Houthis and Ansar al-Sharia, on the map. If not, atleast Sa'dah city should be shown as one under opposition control.Kermanshahi (talk) 13:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, that's a very good point about the Houthis and Islah being Islamist. You are correct that I intended "Islamist Militants" to refer to Ansar al-Sharia and AQAP. I still feel it's best to group the other factions together for now, for the sake of simplicity, but I think I'd like to change the label "Islamist Militants" to more explicitly refer to Ansar al-Sharia and AQAP. Do you think "Islamist Extremists" would be better, or is "extremists" too subjective? Ideas? Evzob (talk) 18:13, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I agree that Sa'dah city should be labeled as under opposition control if that's the case, as I've long suspected it is; but I need a source for that. Do you know where I could find one? Evzob (talk) 18:13, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Extremist" is to much of a subjective term, because who is extreme and who isn't? Some secularists in Turkey call the AKP extremists, while some al-Qaeda groups call Hamas infidels for not being Islamic enough and cetrainly Saleh regime would classify the Houthis and the Islah as extremists. It should be named as "Ansar al-Sharia", because this is the umbrella organisation, or else "AQAP related militants." Now, As for Sa'dah being under Houthi control, you better look at the article itself: Shia Insurgency in Yemen, which says:

"On March 24 , Houthi rebels took over the city of Sa'ada from government forces.[1]"

"On March 26 , Houthi rebels declared the creation of their own administration in Saada Governorate, independent from Yemeni authorities. A former arms dealer was appointed governor by the Houthis as the previous Sa'dah governor was forced to flee to Sanaa.[2][3]"

You better check the sources there yourself, if you want. But I can give you some quotes from the links here: "The Houthi Group appointed on Saturday Fares Mana'a, a Yemeni Arms Dealer, as governor of Yemen's northern province of Sa'ada after the fall of the Saleh loyal governor of Sa'ada. " [1]

"In the northern province of Saada, Houthi rebels seized control of the province following clashes with local tribes, a resident told Arab News. The rebels now run government facilities and control checkpoints. Residents approved Faris Manna, a notorious arms dealer, as replacement for the governor who has fled to the capital. Police deserted their posts and relocated themselves to army camps." [2]

Meanwhile here it is described that they seized control after defeating pro-government Sheikh Uthman Mujalli and destroyed his house.

Kermanshahi (talk) 15:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the sources! I wasn't aware of the Shia Insurgency in Yemen article, and I wasn't sure what time frame to search for news from. And as for the label for the red areas, I've been thinking about it and I also came to the conclusion that "Ansar al-Sharia" is probably the best option. Or perhaps (if it fits) I should say "Ansar al-Sharia & AQAP", since as far as I can tell, they are not confirmed to be exactly the same group (though they must at least overlap a lot). I'll make the corrections/adjustments to the map soon. Thanks so much for your feedback! Evzob (talk) 22:25, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, Ansar al-Sharia is similar to what the Islamic State of Iraq was in Iraq. Umbrella organisation to which al-Qaeda belongs, along with numerous Salafi jihadist allies. I hope to see this adjustments made soon. Best regards, Kermanshahi (talk) 15:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Both versions of the map (July and October) have now been corrected to reflect Houthi control of Sa'dah and to clarify that the red represents Ansar al-Sharia and/or AQAP. I included both names for the sake of covering everything, since activities in the eastern provinces have been attributed to AQAP for years, while as far as I can tell the term "Ansar al-Sharia" has mostly been used recently in Abyan and neighboring areas. Evzob (talk) 15:34, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]