File talk:TSMG UDR 1.JPG

User:SonofSetanta uploaded this file with the description "IRA men disguised as UDR soldiers". The blog page it was taken from does not say that it shows "IRA men disguised as UDR soldiers". The caption underneath it says "UDR armed with TSMG". Altho the blog page is named "Derry IRA Patrol & Weapons", it also includes pictures of British soldiers with captured IRA weapons and even a picture of UVF members. Clearly this is a picture of UDR soldiers posing with captured weapons. ~Asarlaí 16:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I've already opened the talk page at commons for this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:TSMG_UDR_1.JPG. However, I'll indulge you. Looking at the picture, they are not UDR soldiers in my opinion. The cap badges are all being worn in different places whereas every soldier is taught on his basic training to wear his cap badge squarely above his left eye. No, these are not UDR soldiers. They're IRA men. On other images where soldiers are messing about with captured weapons the photo caption says exactly that. SonofSetanta (talk) 16:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on verifiability, not on an editor's own opinions. You've uploaded a picture of three men (who may still be alive) and labelled them members of an illegal organization, without any sources to back it up. Unless you can show us a reliable source confirming that these men are IRA members in disguise, I suggest you change that caption ASAP. ~Asarlaí 18:09, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

It's not my opinion though is it? The originator claims they are from the "Derry IRA Patrol". SonofSetanta (talk) 10:28, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes it is your opinion, which you yourself admitted when you said "Looking at the picture, they are not UDR soldiers in my opinion". The originator wrote under the picture "UDR armed with TSMG". Elsewhere on the page there are pictures of British soldiers with captured weapons (see the pictures captioned "Captured IRA TSMG" and "TSMG arms find") and even a picture of UVF members (see the picture captioned "UVF Volunteers with TSMG"). ~Asarlaí 12:30, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, when I downloaded the image the caption was "UDR TSMG" AFAIK. There is enough doubt in my mind now however to have removed the image from both articles it was being used on until such times as the provenance and licencing have been resolved - if they ever are. I want to be as sure of my images as you want me to me. SonofSetanta (talk) 12:45, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I have now nominated this image for deletion as the caption on the source page has changed, revealing it to be a picture of UDR soldiers with a captured weapon. SonofSetanta (talk) 12:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)