File talk:Soccer football.png
I think that the color of the Philippines should be changed from pink to green, to indicate that the name is in dispute. It has been called Soccer, Football (like the Philippine Football Federation), Saker, and Putbol. (Kalipulako (talk) 17:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC))
In Namibia and most likely also other southern african countries it is called soccer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.121.94.53 (talk) 21:19, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Please change the colors, as a partially-colorblind person, I find the red and green used here hard to distinguish. Red, blue and bright yellow would be better, for example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.35.74.125 (talk) 01:01, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Inaccurate?
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This image appears to contain some inaccuracies. For example I have visited India, and the English speaking population tends to refer to the sport as soccer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.16.52.31 (talk) 04:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC) I very sure the Irish and the Australians refer to it as football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.28.149 (talk) 15:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Changes I've made
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I've made the following changes, which I'm documenting here because there isn't enough space in the edit summary:
- I've removed Quebec and Puerto Rico because they are part of a bigger nation which speaks English, but they don't speak it themselves. In the case of Puerto Rico, it is an official language but not spoken. If any Puerto Ricans disagree, feel free to change it back.
- South Sudan now has its own border
- Ireland calls it "football" not "soccer."
- US Virgin Islands are under "disputed."
- Philippines does not speak English.
Magog the Ogre (t • c) 02:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
- Removing Quebec is a big of can-of-worms, since there are many English-speakers in Quebec, and many French-speakers in Canada but outside of Quebec, and federally English and French are both official languages across Canada. It seems quite odd that this map would treat South Africa and India (for example) as part of the English-speaking world, but start splitting Canada up into linguistic regions. If we are going to be so specific as to be dealing with linguistic regions and linguistic majorities, then a number of countries with non-English speaking majorities should be removed. As it is now, the removal of Quebec is inconsistent with the manner in which other countries are treated. If we were to be consistent, for example, there are many states in India where English is not an official language at the state level and where there are far fewer native English speakers than in Quebec. If we remove Quebec, as a start, we should start removing those Indian states.
(Ironically, in Quebec, both francophones and anglophones mainly use the word soccer).
The other changes seem logical. Although the Phillipines is problematic, since it does have English as one of its two official languages, and it is as much an English-speaking country as some of the other countries on this map.--Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
- No response, but Magog likely missed my comment and I had not (until now) alerted him on his talk page.
To be clear, I believe we should be sticking to countries where English is a majority language or an official language, and not personally assessing regions where they do or don't speak English (if that's the case, then to be consistent with the removal of Quebec, we have a lot of work to do). I believe that Quebec and Phillipines should be restored. Puerto Rico is an unusual case, and I do not feel strongly either way. Magog's other changes are good ones. Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah; I need {{talkback}} notice if it's more than about 24 hours since I posted the note. I just don't follow things closely enough. Anyway, I have no objection to restoring the Philippines, because it is an official language. However, Quebec does not have it as an official language. Maybe we could create an arbitrary cutoff: if English is an official language, or natively spoken by at least 10% of the population. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 17:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
- Well, yes, English is an official language in Quebec, as per both federal law and the Constitution. Provincially is not an official language, but that does not cancel out everything else. In any event, the treatment of Quebec is still inconsistent with many other locations on the map. It is silly to be calling India in its entirety English-speaking (not to mention a whole number of other countries), but not Canada. There is no consensus for this change, or for the Phillipines. And I am not sure why, in the context of a map about soccer/football, we would be creating arbitrary cut-offs - 5%, 10%, 15% or 20% - who are we to make such subjective calls? Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:22, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
- Why are you talking about consensus here? There are exactly two people: you and me, and consensus is what we make it. And the reason we use that standard is that the US doesn't have an official language, at the federal and at the state level for many states. Do you have a better idea? Magog the Ogre (t • c) 16:33, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- I am talking consensus because one person cannot unilaterally alter what was a stable map, where there is disagreement as to those changes. There needs to be consensus for your changes. I agree that consensus is what we make it, and I expect that we will achieve it. As for the cut-offs, I understand that not all countries have an official language. I'm not stupid. I just don't think it is up to us, in the context of a map about soccer, to be determining what constitutes the anglosphere - it touches on an WP:OR exercise, as we are effectively deciding what is, and what isn't, an English-speaking country based on a percentage threshold that we just made up ourselves. We should simply rely on something like this and go forward.
But to address the more immediate issue, the Quebec and Phillipines need to be reverted, as English is an official language in both jurisdictions. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:40, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- {{Sofixit}}. I am perfectly well within my rights to make a change I view as acceptable (see WP:BRD), as you are within yours to revert said change. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 18:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, fine, but that means also reverting your changes that made a lot of sense. By raising it on the talk page, and having a discussion, I was trying to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And, by the way, usage of templates for newbies is never a good idea - may not have been your intention, but it comes across as patronizing. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:48, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Why do you have to revert my good changes? It's not that hard to edit a file. Break out Windows Paint or GIMP or something. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 21:00, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Seriously? You made an error, seemed unwilling to discuss that error, told someone to go fix it themselves if they were concerned, and now you're complaining that the other person didn't undertake a bunch of extra work. I'm sorry, I'm not a graphics guy. I tried to discuss the issue with you. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- Why do you have to revert my good changes? It's not that hard to edit a file. Break out Windows Paint or GIMP or something. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 21:00, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, fine, but that means also reverting your changes that made a lot of sense. By raising it on the talk page, and having a discussion, I was trying to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And, by the way, usage of templates for newbies is never a good idea - may not have been your intention, but it comes across as patronizing. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:48, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- {{Sofixit}}. I am perfectly well within my rights to make a change I view as acceptable (see WP:BRD), as you are within yours to revert said change. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 18:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- I am talking consensus because one person cannot unilaterally alter what was a stable map, where there is disagreement as to those changes. There needs to be consensus for your changes. I agree that consensus is what we make it, and I expect that we will achieve it. As for the cut-offs, I understand that not all countries have an official language. I'm not stupid. I just don't think it is up to us, in the context of a map about soccer, to be determining what constitutes the anglosphere - it touches on an WP:OR exercise, as we are effectively deciding what is, and what isn't, an English-speaking country based on a percentage threshold that we just made up ourselves. We should simply rely on something like this and go forward.
- Why are you talking about consensus here? There are exactly two people: you and me, and consensus is what we make it. And the reason we use that standard is that the US doesn't have an official language, at the federal and at the state level for many states. Do you have a better idea? Magog the Ogre (t • c) 16:33, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Well, yes, English is an official language in Quebec, as per both federal law and the Constitution. Provincially is not an official language, but that does not cancel out everything else. In any event, the treatment of Quebec is still inconsistent with many other locations on the map. It is silly to be calling India in its entirety English-speaking (not to mention a whole number of other countries), but not Canada. There is no consensus for this change, or for the Phillipines. And I am not sure why, in the context of a map about soccer/football, we would be creating arbitrary cut-offs - 5%, 10%, 15% or 20% - who are we to make such subjective calls? Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:22, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah; I need {{talkback}} notice if it's more than about 24 hours since I posted the note. I just don't follow things closely enough. Anyway, I have no objection to restoring the Philippines, because it is an official language. However, Quebec does not have it as an official language. Maybe we could create an arbitrary cutoff: if English is an official language, or natively spoken by at least 10% of the population. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 17:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
- No response, but Magog likely missed my comment and I had not (until now) alerted him on his talk page.
- Removing Quebec is a big of can-of-worms, since there are many English-speakers in Quebec, and many French-speakers in Canada but outside of Quebec, and federally English and French are both official languages across Canada. It seems quite odd that this map would treat South Africa and India (for example) as part of the English-speaking world, but start splitting Canada up into linguistic regions. If we are going to be so specific as to be dealing with linguistic regions and linguistic majorities, then a number of countries with non-English speaking majorities should be removed. As it is now, the removal of Quebec is inconsistent with the manner in which other countries are treated. If we were to be consistent, for example, there are many states in India where English is not an official language at the state level and where there are far fewer native English speakers than in Quebec. If we remove Quebec, as a start, we should start removing those Indian states.
- No guess work here pls - Just need to do a search to see what is used by the official governing institution of each place ...Fédération de soccer du Québec - Puerto Rico Soccer League - Soccer Central Philippines.18:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. But the issue was actually whether Canada and Puerto Rico in their entirety belong on a map of English-speaking nations, rather than usage by governing institutions. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:48, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Both are officially english so whats the problem?Moxy (talk) 19:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Well, exactly. I have no idea why this is so difficult. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- I know I'm late to this, but I would like to mention that people in Ireland call the game "soccer" and not "football". In a majority of situations when we Irish people mention "football", we are in fact referring to the national sport of Gaelic football which is significantly different from soccer. Number10a (talk) 17:50, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
